[opportune]

It’s hard to feel bad for them but there are a lot of outcomes here which result in a lot of people dying. Pretty sure half the reason SA and friends promote violent, reactionary interpretations of Islam is to serve as a dead man’s switch in case of regime change.

[pydry]

Oil is basically what made the middle east a violent and reactionary place.

Natural resources dominating the economy drives conflict and economic clusterfucks in all but the richest, most stable democracies (i.e. everywhere except Norway).

Oil's decline in importance might be the only way to escape this cycle (even if it will probably lead to bloodshed first).

[Pokepokalypse]

Oil would only have been a thing maybe after 1890's or so.

It's been violent and reactionary for centuries.

The natural resource that drove the Romans and Greeks, and later Europe to colonize that region was: trade routes.

Frankly; Turkey, Persia, and Egypt have also been at each other's throats over regional dominance for centuries.

[BurningFrog]

Pretty much the whole world was violent and reactionary before 1890.

[tomjen3]

Egypt fought the Europeans. Egypt fought the Romans. Egypt fought the Asyrian Empire.

The middle-east has been a powerhouse since before Europe was a thing. They have been fighting each other for tens of millenniums.

I don't think oil was that big a factor before WWI though. You have to remember that until cars come along the entire industrial revolution is powered by coal and the UK had plenty of coal. Oil only becomes important after the first world war -- at the same time the Ottoman Empire that had ruled most of the middle-east is broken up, so you have a bunch of new countries with new civil infrastructure getting massively wealthy from a seemingly endless gift from the group - and all of those countries are ruled by tribal people and strongmen, if only because they were set up that way by the British and French.

[minikites]

>Oil is basically what made the middle east a violent and reactionary place.

Colonialism did that, the oil was just a motivating factor.

[irrational]

> Oil is basically what made the middle east a violent and reactionary place.

So, the Arab conquest after the 600s was not violent and reactionary?

[frankbreetz]

It is easy to feel bad for the citizens who don't really get a say in the matter and live under a repressive regime.

[natch]

I feel worse for the non-citizens they effectively enslave in their households, controlling their passport while under employment.

[hnarn]

Two things can be bad at once.

[natch]

“worse”

[cs02rm0]

Pretty sure half the reason SA and friends promote violent, reactionary interpretations of Islam...

Is that a common abbreviation for Saudi? We used to use KSA when I lived there, but I don't trust South Africans not to be violent either. ;)

[hnarn]

SA is actually the ISO-3166 abbreviation for Saudi Arabia, South Africa is "ZA". Perhaps not the widely used abbreviation for South Africa, but using "SA" for Saudi Arabia probably isn't incorrect.

[staycoolboy]

I spent a month in Antibes (next to Cannes) visiting new in-laws. The French Riviera is a playground for the hundreds (thousands?) of saudi princes. I've never seen so many mega yachts, Rolls Royces, and Lambos in one place. To be honest, it was (briefly) kinda cool to see ultra-wealth on display, despite the consequences to millions of poor who suffer for it.