[ergothus]

How many things have been aberrant and denounced, only to become the regrettable norm in the last few years?

When I was a child, the US wouldn't open admit to torture. It didn't have publicly known programs to ship prisoners to other jurisdictions so the U.S. rules of conduct could be bypassed. It didn't have a (publicly known) prison filled with non-U.S. people that were denied a civil trial. It didn't have a president that actively preached for or against public companies outside of criminal matters. When I was a child, a president openly violating ethics concerns WAS a matter of that president getting removed - with such certainty they'd step down to avoid the inevitable result.

I'm totally willing to believe that an aberrant behavior doesn't have to become the norm, but I won't believe that should be expected. I've been told all my life to expect that dramatic reactions and concerns are overstated and not the case, that we should all be calm and expect things to work out well, but if I look at the actual events of my life, I see the opposite lessons being taught: Unless we react strongly, clearly, and persistently, progress will not happen and things will slide for the worse.

It's not the lesson I want to learn, it's not a lesson I am comfortable with, but it does appear to be what I've seen in the last few decades.

[refurb]

Go back another 30 years and everything you mention was happening as well.

JFK - lying about the missile gap with Russia to get elected

Johnson - lying about his intentions in Vietnam

Nixon - too many to list

If anything, I'd say there is more transparency around unethical behavior by elected officials.

[ergothus]

> I'd say there is more transparency around unethical behavior by elected officials

And that's what worries me - note in my post above I was careful to talk about "public". Before there was a veil of deniability, the idea that at least a pretense of innocence had to be maintained.

Now it feels like there is little care to hide it. Sure, many of us are outraged, but that outrage has done nothing to translate into stopping the actions.

[tdeck]

Your perspective really resonates with me, and it reminds me of the old quote "Hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue". When people lie to cover up their misdeeds, it at least promotes the collective acknowledgement that we have certain values.

[jacobush]

It also puts a limit on what evil deeds can be done, too many or large things can't be hidden under the veil of innocence.

When even pretence is no longer a concern, there's no limit really.

[ekianjo]

> If anything, I'd say there is more transparency around unethical behavior by elected officials.

Yes, and it's because there are more watchdogs and reporting than ever before, and "the internet does not forget"

[raverbashing]

> I'd say there is more transparency around unethical behavior by elected officials.

And politicians using inordinate behaviours as political currency and more people to condone the same absurdities

[Cthulhu_]

Go back a little more and you've got US concentration camps where they put in anyone Japanese or looking vaguely asian.

Go back a little more and you've got Mexicans at the border branded as dirty, forced to take bleach showers and have their clothes fumigated using Zyklon-B, inspiring the Germans to use it to mass-execute Jews. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Bath_riots ).

Go back a little more and you've got slavery and states trying to segregate from the US to maintain the system.

Go back a little more and you've got immigrants genociding the native population using biological agents, bullets, and mass rape to conquer the land as their own.

The US has NEVER had the moral high ground; their best claim to fame is helping to liberate Europe from the Nazis, but other than that they've absolutely shit.

[mlindner]

Enough with the fear mongering. Theres nothing that's changed substantially in the last few years that hasn't always been there.