Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by refurb 2161 days ago
Science doesn’t have a great explanation for everything, but that doesn’t make it junk science.

Suffice to say it’s not uncommon for people to die suddenly when they encounter stressful situations, even not related to police interactions. I remember reading about a case where a person fell through the ice on a lake, the water never going over his head. He was pulled out immediately, but died of cardiac arrest. What happened? Not unusual to label it vasovagal syncope that resulted in sudden death. Is it a great explanation? No, but it’s the best we have.

Similar to excited delirium, we have folks who exhibit similar symptoms and some of them die. Do we know exactly why? Not always, but it doesn’t make “excites delirium” junk science.

Not excusing police brutality at all, but it shouldn’t be surprising some of these sudden deaths happen in police interactions too, especially when you’ve got drugs involved and/or mental illness.
2 comments
newacct583 2161 days ago
> Science doesn’t have a great explanation for everything, but that doesn’t make it junk science.

The issue here is that some people (the police) are applying this idea as if it was a great explanation. That's what makes it junk science.

link
refurb 2161 days ago
No doubt cops use excessive for in some cases and blame it on excited delirium.

I guess my point is - it’s probably true in some cases.

link
newacct583 2161 days ago
Indeed. But "probably true in some cases" is sorta a giant red flag for "junk science". Real medicine uses higher standards before basing policy on a model like this.
link
crooked-v 2161 days ago
> some of these sudden deaths

https://www.floridatoday.com/in-depth/news/2019/10/24/excite...

> For decades, critics of using "excited delirium" as a cause of death have expressed concern that the term appears almost exclusively on medical reports for deaths in custody or that otherwise involve law enforcement.

> About two-thirds of the cases reviewed by FLORIDA TODAY fit that bill. A majority of those cases are complicated by the presence of illegal stimulant drugs like cocaine or methamphetamine. But in those deaths where there was no drug use and the toxicology came back negative, the only common denominator in virtually every case was the involvement of law enforcement, such as in the case of Gregory Lloyd Edwards.

link