[peteretep]

Having been deeply skeptical of “gluten intolerance” (as contrasted with coeliac) for many years, I eventually realised wheat was causing me chronic heartburn after I cut it out as part of a low-carb diet undertaken for other reasons. Having had much the same thing happen with eggs and eczema, and not having made the link before that, I guess I’m now an advocate of people trying exclusion diets

[graeme]

Two things I can say as someone who went this route:

* Try a gluten test if you have had exposure recently enough to do it. It’s good to know.

* A sizeable chunk of people who have trouble with gluten may actually have trouble with fodmaps. They’re in everything wheat except sourdough bread.

Why does this matter? In the case of celiac you can’t have a crumb. In the case of fodmap trouble you can’t have a bunch of wheat, but a trace amount won’t hurt you.

I now have found gluten not to be an issue, and was able to identify a bunch of food triggers due to them being in the fodmap family. It’s made life simpler in that I know for sure I don’t have to worry about exposure, and can have moderate fodmaps as well.

Fodmaps are hard to get a handle on. There are good apps where you can quickly look up things you eat. Before that I never managed to try fodmap elimination because it was too complicated.

Note that I am not saying you, OP, don’t have a gluten problem. But there will be many people reading your post, who have digestive discomfort and other issues but nothing life threatening. To those people I would strongly recommend a gluten test before you quit, and check fodmaps if you test negative.

I had a wide variety of digestive symptoms that are similar to some celiac symptoms, but that was not the cause. And gluten being nearly all high fodmap makes for possible confounding.

(Fodmaps are mostly in carbs, so a low carb diet can also be a fodmap reduction diet)

[irrational]

> They’re in everything wheat except sourdough bread.

Why is that? The only difference between sourdough bread and non-sourdough bread is yeast vs starter (and some people still use yeast in addition to their starter).

[Raphael_Amiard]

That's related to what FODMAP are: fermentable carbohydrates. They'll be decomposed in the fermentation process for sourdough bread.

It has been noticed by many people who think they're gluten intolerant that they digest sourdough bread much better. The likelyhood that this is linked to the changes incurred by the fermentation process is high, since, as you said, that's the only difference.

[bregma]

It's more the opposite: FODMAPs are non-fermentable carbohydrates. If they were fermentable by yeast, they would be fermented and you wouldn't be eating them. The whole point is that yeast doesn't metabolize them but your natural intestinal flora does.

Sourdough is a mixture of yeasts, lactobacter, and acidophilus in various proportions. The latter two will metabolize the FODMAPS, either while proving the bread or in your gut. One of those choices can cause discomfort and the other a delicious food product.

[maxnoe]

It's the only difference in ingredients.

But the difference is a world apart.

The best example is rye bread, which won't develop a crumb without sour dough.

Concerning the fodmaps, it is the usually longer fermentation that reduces those.

[graeme]

Note that rye sourdough is still high fodmap. Found this out early on when I realized it still caused symptoms.

True wheat sourdough is hard to find too. Most bakeries put in yeast and label it sourdough.

[OJFord]

> yeast vs starter

Commercial yeast vs. starter [naturally occurring yeast, flour, and water]

[quietbritishjim]

According to Wikipedia (which I consulted because I know nothing at all about this), starter also contains lactobacilli .

> The lactic acid produced by the lactobacilli gives it a more sour taste and improved keeping qualities.

[OJFord]

Sure, and dust, and any other spores or pollutants in the air, I didn't mean to provide a pure and complete list, I just meant that it's not some magic yeastless concoction that also happens to make bread rise. It's still yeast doing the work, it's just naturally occurring, rather than added from a packet of commercially grown and sold yeast.

[quietbritishjim]

Right, but that article claims that lactobacilli are critical to make the bread actually taste like sourdough at the end, whereas presumably dust isn't.

I did realise your main point is that it does include yeast, and I agree with that.

[myrandomcomment]

Did the Whole30 diet. No gluten, no dairy for 30 days. Life of allergy pills and skin cream (6 shots a week as a kid in the 80s) Got worse as I got older (40s now). 20 days in no ezcema no pills. Day 31 you add something back. Had some udon and a beer. 5 minutes later turned red, had issues breathing and itchy all over. Hum. It’s gluten. Test (blood) from doc no celiacs. WTF? Do some research, get butt scope to look at my intestines. Hum, looks like you should not eats stuff with gluten. I miss beer and the perfect cheese steak (the roll is a major factor in the yum level). Feel so much better. It’s a pain to eat out. Cross contamination is a bitch.

Still drink wine every dinner and smoke a cigar everyday :)

[test1235]

After 40-odd years of suffering, you must be elated!

I've not much to add other than to say I'm very happy for you - it's hard to comprehend what a torment it is to have deal with conditions like that on a daily basis.

[WA]

There’s gluten-free beer. Maybe you can grow a taste for that. It’s not too bad.

[distances]

I agree. Normal beer you can totally, and easily, replace with gluten free. Not so much for the speciality beers though.

[myrandomcomment]

So at the dark end you can find good gluten free beers. The heavy beers help hide the taste of things like sorghum, however there is nothing similar to a Modelo or Pacifico that gluten free that taste decent, which is want I want on a hot summer day. Oh well.

I have started to really enjoy cider. There are some good ones from small makers. Golden State Cider makes some nice ones. All the big company ones (American) are crap full of sugar.

[dfinninger]

Someone close to me was having issues with Gluten for years. Went gluten-free for most of the last decade to stave them off. Had chronic heartburn and difficulty swallowing in some situations (throat felt “too small”).

Turns out it was some sort of allergy resulting in Eosinophilic esophagitis. Now that they are medication, most all of the symptoms have dissipated.

If you are experiencing throat issues related to gluten (or other things in the exclusion diet) it may be worth getting checked out.

[wirrbel]

Here the same, deeply sceptical of the gluten intolerance stuff, also looking at the research. Jumping on and off of Keto I am now very sure that either carbs in general were the source of my stained underwear problem. Haven't' made the differential test yet whether its gluten or carbs in general but currently don't really feel a need for it because I continue to lose weight on keto + fasting