[jialutu]

> please provide an example of two of where they claim China is more oppressive than it actually is

I'll give you one. Pretty much every single mainstream media basically says religion is banned in China. However to my detriment, every time I go back to China to visit my paternal grandma (who is a catholic), I get asked to go to Sunday mass with her. So, where is religion banned in China? Let me know your thoughts about this, do you think religion is banned in China?

> adversarial justice systems

You do realise that "adversarial justice systems" only pretty much exist in Common Law countries right? Whereas Civil Law countries don't use an adversarial system, which is pretty much the legal system of the whole of the EU and pretty much all of Asia including China. I've even read arguments from British barristers that the adversarial system can be an inferior system. I mean, the adversarial justice system certainly didn't do too well for the incarceration rate of black people in America now did it?

[remarkEon]

CCP views religion just like any other technology. It can be useful, as long as it furthers the goals of the Party. Once it stops doing that - or becomes a threat - it's dealt with, and severely in the case of Uyhur Muslims[1].

It's also worth noting that the Catholic Church in China is actually a state sanctioned organization that is not in Communion with the Holy See. There exists an underground Catholic Church that is in Communion with Rome, but, for obvious reasons, it's much smaller.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...

[gspr]

>> please provide an example of two of where they claim China is more oppressive than it actually is

> I'll give you one. Pretty much every single mainstream media basically says religion is banned in China. However to my detriment, every time I go back to China to visit my paternal grandma (who is a catholic), I get asked to go to Sunday mass with her. So, where is religion banned in China? Let me know your thoughts about this, do you think religion is banned in China?

First of all, I can't remember ever seeing Western MSM saying religion is banned in China. Would you be so kind as to provide an example?

Second, while religion is clearly not banned in China, there isn't freedom of religion. I care very little about the rigmarole of religious people, but I do care about their freedom to keep those. China whitelists a set of religions, religious practices and religious institutions. As with so many other things in China, if you happen to find what you want within such an approved space, you enjoy freedoms. Outside of those preapproved boxes, there isn't freedom of religion in China.

You yourself bring up catholicism. I am not here to defend the catholic church (yuck!), but the approved catholic church in China is not allowed to have the same relationship with the Vatican as ordinary catholic churces elsewhere. This is not freedom of religion. And let's not even get started with islam, or let alone falun gong! You've got to be kidding me.

So, no, religion isn't banned in China. I've never claimed it is, nor do MSM tend to claim it is. The claim is rather that there is very little freedom of religion in China.

>> adversarial justice systems

> You do realise that "adversarial justice systems" only pretty much exist in Common Law countries right? Whereas Civil Law countries don't use an adversarial system, which is pretty much the legal system of the whole of the EU and pretty much all of Asia including China.

I'm sorry. As somone from a civil law country who usually gets quite annoyed by common law people assuming that common law is the system everywhere, I should have been a lot more careful with my wording. I should have said "justice systems where there is a true burden of proof on the prosecuting authority" instead.

> I've even read arguments from British barristers that the adversarial system can be an inferior system. I mean, the adversarial justice system certainly didn't do too well for the incarceration rate of black people in America now did it?

Here we go again. There's a lot that's wrong with the American justice system. The Chinese justice system is fundamentally flawed, to the point of being a worthless sham that merely rubberstamps the arbitrary "justice" of the CCP. If you cannot see that enormous chasm between these two, then I don't know how to get through to you.