[DoreenMichele]

Beauty isn't as simple as being born looking a certain way. It can be influenced by health. It can be influenced by social savvy. It can be influenced by socioeconomic class.

To think that it merely reflects your genes vastly oversimplifies it.

(I was once "beautiful." I have a genetic disorder. This is a subject I have thought a lot about over the years.)

[cafard]

"The ladies have as much beauty here as in other places, but bloom and softness are not to be expected among the lower classes, whose faces are exposed to the rudeness of the climate, and whose features are sometimes contracted by want, and sometimes hardened by the blasts. Supreme beauty is seldom found in cottages or work-shops, even where no real hardships are suffered. To expand the human face to its full perfection, it seems necessary that the mind should co-operate by placidness of content, or consciousness of superiority."

-- Samuel Johnson, A Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland.

[sudhirj]

The beauty as symmetry metric is purely genetic, but yes, grooming can add a lot of beauty points. The other metric is also body type preference, which seems more scarcity related - people in food-scarce locations will consider larger bodies attractive, but will change their preferences if they relocate to a different part of the earth.

A symmetric person will likely be considered beautiful in rags (unless they’re malnourished) and a non-symmetric person can be considered beautiful with some grooming, both physical and personality wise. The Queer Eye show made this pretty popular, at least in my circles.

[DoreenMichele]

Degree of symmetry can change over time depending on health status.

[david38]

As a guy, I find that most guys dismiss beauty as luck while chasing girls who have it.

They fail to realize that a sizable percentage of attractive girls don’t roll out of bed a 10. They watch what they eat, they run, work out, pay special attention to clothes, makeup, hair, etc. It adds up to a couple hours each day. In the age of instagram, the bar has only risen higher.

When I see beauty now I think of the effort it takes to stay that way and silently congratulate them.

[ewindal]

It is, though. Luck (genetics) determines your baseline and roof. No amount og grooming and training will change your potential.

[justinmchase]

Also age of course, which affects everyone alive

[jazzyk]

There are people who age extremely well, though.

Audrey Hepburn, in her early sixties (just before her death) was stunningly beautiful. She was merely "cute" when she was in her twenties.

[poiuytrewqa]

Actually not really, I mean if you're ugly and rich you're just ugly with money. You may get benefits just because you've money. But if you don't show off then there's no way to influence your "perception of beauty"

Beauty has more to do with culture (what do we consider good looking and what not) but there's also an objective beauty that has to do with body proportion for example

https://www.nature.com/articles/526S16a.pdf

[jmmcd]

> if you're ugly and rich you're just ugly with money

Spending money on the right things can make a large difference. Teeth, skincare, diet, haircut, clothes, time in the gym, quitting a job that would keep you in the sun too long, ...

[zzzddds]

I think these are actually pretty accessible things that everybody can spend money on (skincare, haircut, clothes, gym)

[Certified]

Elon Musk before and after hair transplant surgery is a perfect counterexample showing money absolutely can enhance beauty

[molmalo]

As an example, check pictures before and after being millionaire of some rock stars, actors, sportsmen, etc and you will see how money can really change the looks.

Take this picture before after of Cristiano Ronaldo, for example:

https://elbocon.pe/resizer/0hZVESd2S5BEAOwYYdT6_FUcIEE=/980x...

[zzzddds]

This is laughable. Using a picture as argument to say "you can be handsome with money" is pretty much pointless

https://www.besoccer.com/new/the-20-ugliest-footballers-in-t...

https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/has-cristiano-ronaldo-had-pl...

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/sydney-confi...

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls054789830/

[RandomVelocity]

>Take this picture before after of Cristiano Ronaldo, for example:

That's not really fair. He was like 16/17 on that first picture.

[488643689]

You have no idea what aesthetic surgery can achieve. They can crush your skull to shambles and give it a completely new shape. If you think trashy when thinking about aesthetic surgery, you've only identified the cheap stuff and seen the addicts and failures.

Ugly rich people either don't care or don't consider the risks worth it.

[watwut]

Not really, because your beauty strongly depends on hair cut, skin care, clothes you wear, the way you move and so on. How fit you are and how healthy you are. In case of women, the exactly right make up.

The same person can look beautiful and ugly depending on all of that.

[poiuytrewqa]

Well, then we can but also plastic surgery on the mix if that matter.

I thought it was implicit that we're talking about natural beauty without make up perhaps.

And no, beauty does not depends the clothes you wear for example (makeup, yes I second that if is very thick can change the way a person look)