[eric4smith]

They are not a problem if a parent teaches young kids how to use them properly. I'm not for just throwing power tools at kids.

The point i'm making is that in high school we had wood and metal shop. Welding. Electrical. NONE of those classes exist anymore. And with helicopter parenting kids aren't learning them either.

[AlotOfReading]

The problem with power tools is that even if you know how to use them, a momentary lapse can lead to permanent disability. My father has been using them for decades. He got stupid with a table saw once recently and severed the tendons to half his fingers. A few tens of thousands in reconstructive surgery later, we're still not sure if he'll ever be 100% in that hand. Statistically, some kids are going to do the same. I can totally understand why people don't think the marginal utility of being able to use power tools outweighs the risk without safety measures like the sawstop.

[troydavis]

> They are not a problem if a parent teaches young kids how to use them properly.

The statistics don’t bear out that training or experience eliminates risk of serious injury. It’s even trivially disprovable with anecdotes - tons of experienced woodworkers have had blade touches and/or kickback-induced blade touches. Here’s 3:

https://www.woodworkingfunhour.com/blog/2020/1/16/015-matts-...

https://twitter.com/JimmyDiResta/status/318214766818635776

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifjjacjLBE

If anyone is learning advanced shop safety, a few years ago I made the advanced survey that I wished existed: http://sawsafely.org/ . http://sawsafely.org/#injury-research-&-statistics has table saw injury stats. In an era of flesh-detecting table saws, using a table saw without it (other than weird special-purpose saws) means underestimating either the probability or the consequences.

[Fjolsvith]

My father's trade was journeyman carpenter. His hands are so mangled and scarred from saws and air nailers. He has been doing it so long that he doesn't pay attention.

For myself, every time I pick up a saw, I imagine cutting my finger off and it makes me take care.

When I aim the air nailer, I make sure my hands are further away than the nail length. I've had nails deflect on unseen defects inside the wood and poke out the other side where I didn't expect.

[mtrower]

I think the point (certainly one I would make) is not that risk doesn't exist, but that overavoidance of risk is a problem. Yes, given the prevalence of power tools, there are statistically going to be some accidents (especially with the cavalier culture many shops have regarding tools). And yes, it sucks to be the statistic. I'm still glad I grew up around tools (and people who knew how to use them). As a result, I'm pretty handy with them, unlike many adults I know who are just super-awkward around them.

Regarding flesh-detecting table saws (which I fully support), there's a third possibility - lack of funds. Those things are seriously expensive. When the choice is not between sawstop and traditional saws, but instead traditional table saw or none, the traditional table saw can still be a worthy investment. It's all situational.

[SECProto]

> The point i'm making is that in high school we had wood and metal shop. Welding. Electrical. NONE of those classes exist anymore. And with helicopter parenting kids aren't learning them either.

I had woodworking in high school, but no metal shop, no welding, no electrical. And most of the woodworking class was spent hand-sanding with worn out sandpaper from a drawer full - because the school didn't have enough funding to buy new paper each semester.

That said, I am better prepared for doing welding or electrical than my older relatives at my age, because I have access to youtube. It might be less reliable than learning it in school would have been, but I don't remember much from high school shop class anyway.