[nisuni]

My point is: people (often, males) like to speak in the name of all women when it comes to Lena.

It’s offensive, it keeps women out of CS, it’s a symbol of the patriarchy, etc...

As woman, I am saying this is not the case, at least not for THIS woman: I’ve never felt excluded because of Lena, my CS studies were not impeded by Lena in any way, I have actually used Lena’s image for a small project.

Of course I would accept someone saying that the image offends someone (better if this point is substantiated by evidence) but I absolutely reject people speaking in the name of all women, an saying that Lena offends all women. This is not true!

[brnt]

Finding a person not offended does not mean an image does not contribute to a particular environment, or is an example of it. The image need not be offensive to most or even many for it to be true.

Also, be careful not to attack a strawman: the issue is of course not just the image.

As a man I experienced plenty of unpleasant conversation about women, conversation which might be referred to as men-talk or some such. Also, I'm not competitive at all, while many men would identify that as manly behavior. One of the few women in my university program confided that this (usually unfounded) self-assuredness was very annoying and a huge turn-off, a feeling we both shared, but would have been regarded as an essential ingredient to participating in that program.

Of course, such issues are also present in the reverse. My wife had similar conversations but about men amongst some female colleagues. Fortunately, we've met enough people to not have to settle for such juvenile views/conversations. I can absolutely see how a woman would find it very difficult to be comfortable in such an environment however, when I didn't even feel part of that mildly macho culture.

Just because something is 'anti-women', does not mean it can only bother women. Our cultures associate many things to gender, which in my view is a leftover of centuries past and we would do well to remove that sort of association. Maybe then, a picture of Lena wouldn't represent a (sub)culture so accurately and be therefore an indicator of the problem.

[nisuni]

I have my evidence that Lena is not harmful to women, at least to this woman. It’s one data point, but better than zero.

You are making a much stronger claim without evidence. How is Lena harmful? How many women did Lena drive out of CS?

Do you have some proof, some data, besides neo-Marxist crap such a intersectionalized mysoginistic oppression?

It reminds me of that video that showed that college students are outraged by stereotypical Mexican Halloween costumes, but actual Mexicans are fine with it.

Are you fighting for women, or for your ego?

[brnt]

If you disqualify my experience but hold your own as a valid data point, I guess we are done.