[steffandroid]

> It seems many students have been denied their college admissions due to stuff they tweeted as a teenager.

How many of them have still been denied after showing genuine remorse for their views? Nobody is owed a college admission.

> all the people attacking JK Rowling do not want to say that any man who self ids as a woman should have access to women's private spaces

Nobody's saying that men who falsely claim to be women should have access to women's spaces.

[dvtrn]

Nobody is owed a college admission.

Nobody is universally "owed" anything but we do a lot of good and prudent things anyway because it's entirely within our capacity to execute good and prudent acts and we're sometimes better off for it. And yes we sometimes do bad and despicable things because sometimes impulse overrides reason, but that too is in our capacity to put a handle on and reign in, so we do, or at least we ought to.

So maybe there's a better way to articulate this dichotomy than the lazy argument of "You're not owed $thing"-which doesn't solve anything for anyone except the speaker's own ego.

[lliamander]

> Nobody's saying that men who falsely claim to be women should have access to women's spaces.

What are they saying?

[Pulcinella]

That trans women are women.

[Animats]

Maybe that's just a fad that will blow over. Nobody took that idea seriously until a few years ago. On Google Trends, peak "transgender" was in 2018. Transgenders are around 0.6% of the US population. Niche issue.

[anonms-coward]

Yup, that's the only thing any company or person can say without causing a Twitter storm against them. By saying this they can simply avoid clarifying what they mean by this. I think all these public personalities will have a much harder time if they were asked a clearer question:

Should any man who self ids as a woman have access to women's private spaces.

I don't see a large company ever answering that in yes/no.

[lliamander]

In what sense? That is, in terms of their gender, or their sex, or both?

[joshuamorton]

"Women" is not a sex.

You don't see people saying "trans women are biologically female" for a reason.

[lliamander]

I see people say many things, not all of them make sense or appear consistent to me, which is why I am asking questions.

I appreciate the answer. Are there situations where those of the female sex as a group have a legitimate special interest that does not include trans women?

[joshuamorton]

> Are there situations where those of the female sex as a group

Obviously: medical stuff. The needs of trans women and cis women are not aligned when issues of sexual health come up. Trans women don't have uteruses, for example, and healthcare for trans women differs greatly from assigned-female-at-birth people. Here, the interests of trans women, AFAB women, trans men and AMAB men are all somewhat unique. Note further that in this situation men (specifically trans-men) and AFAB women can have significant overlaps in needs.

Do you mean more in social spaces, where women as a group are interacting as women and not as females? Because as a society we don't often differentiate between female and women's spaces, and in general we seem to apply the label "female" to many things that are really "women's".

Offhand, I can't think of many social spaces where women interact as females, and not just as women. Perhaps spaces devoted to motherhood? As for the women's spaces, those being trans exclusionary is, imo questionable in most cases. Although I did see a trans person I know recently point out that they are able to relate with trans women's experiences often more deeply than with cis women's, so the reverse would also likely be true.

As for your other question:

> I should add, I see people use the phrase "assigned male/female". Which seems odd to me if sex is a biological construct rather than a social construct. It seems the correct phrase would be "assigned man/woman". Is there something I am missing?

I agree the terminology here is weird. But implicit in your framing is that someone is assigned a gender based on their sex. One is not assigned "man/woman" at all. Or, insofar as a trans woman is AMAB, they were also assigned woman at birth (but this assignment is mental), that's why they chose to transition their appearance, to better align with their gender.

I'm not an expert, but my guess is that the "assigned" framing is a way to help distance the person from an aspect of themselves that can cause dysphoria. If you see yourself as a woman, you might strongly prefer to be biologically female, but you can't be. Framing this as something you were assigned helps to address that.

[lliamander]

I should add, I see people use the phrase "assigned male/female". Which seems odd to me if sex is a biological construct rather than a social construct. It seems the correct phrase would be "assigned man/woman". Is there something I am missing?

[newen]

Things are getting just a little bit ridiculous in America when you have people saying "women" is not a sex.

[babycake]

male/female are biological descriptions. Men/Women are social constructs. A man can wear a woman's dress, but a male cannot be pregnant and give birth.

[joshuamorton]

Not at all. It's a gender.

Can you elaborate on what makes that statement so ridiculous on it's face?