[Frost1x]

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Most skilled professions provide some sort of apprenticeship track where you balance some mundane tasks with more complex tasks working with skilled professionals in the discipline to learn the trade better. You're not paid at industry high rates initially but provided a reasonable timeline for full competitive pay employment into the profession.

New and young surgeons don't start out day one on the job after six years or so expected to perform a successful open heart surgery, like software engineers are essentially expected to do. You also don't have civil engineers designing full dams or bridges on day one of their job after their bachelors or masters.

Software on the other hand thinks that for some reason, you transition from student to expert in the blink of an eye or can simply pick up what you need in a few weeks. It's completely unrealistic and businesses need to realize the value and necessity of apprenticeships and mentoring.

The problem with this though is that technology is so diverse (now more than ever) that a certain amount of skill you learn at a business is going to be non-transferable as opposed to other professions where their craft is mostly constant.

This means employees are a little less interested in these commitments because it can tie their skillsets to a specific employer if the employer isn't keeping with popular industry trends. It's also a cost employers and employees often don't want to pay in a world where employer/employee loyalty is non-existent. I think for apprenticeships to work, they need to provide transferable skills/knowledge and or provide some basis of loyalty and long term commitment goals between an employer and employee. Both of these seem like incredible obstacles in the current development climate.

[veets]

I have taught at the undergrad, which gave me the perspective of observing those undergrads that got job offers and those that didn't. Almost without exception, those students that did well in class and made an effort had no problem getting job offers. It was rare if they got a job at a FAANG company, but I don't think I knew anyone who wasn't able to secure an offer. One thing common to all of these students is they practice technical interview questions. Some had internships, some didn't. Some of the students were very bright from a theory perspective but most had a relatively poor grasp on theory. However, one common trait was they made an effort to grow as programmers.

There were students who really struggled getting jobs and it was not at all surprising. They struggled in their courses and were not proficient programmers. I never got the impression that they spent much time outside of class trying to work on these skills. No matter how hard I tried to motivate them it fell on deaf ears. I do not think an apprenticeship would have much value to these students other than possibly delaying the conclusion that this may not be the field for them.

I see the idea of apprenticeships discussed as a better alternative to the technical interview. My observation is that those that are proposing this have not worked in a "skilled profession" (not entirely sure how one defines that) that has a so-called apprenticeship. A common example I see on HN is that of doctors, where their residency serves as a sort of apprenticeship. The number and difficulty of tests doctors have to go through to practice as a doctor (at least in the US) is pretty incredible. Given the choice between going through that or studying months for the most difficult battery of technical interview questions, I would choose the technical interview route every time. This completely ignores the fact that doctors attend 4 years of post-graduate education (medical school) before even starting the residency. Imagine if companies required a PhD in CS before you could become an apprentice! And their boards are, without question, orders of magnitude more difficult than a PhD defense (I have a PhD in CS and my wife is a spine surgeon, so I am speaking from experience).

The counter argument I suppose is "well maybe not doctors, but what about accountants and actuaries?" I was a fully credentialed actuary in a prior life and can say those exams were way more stressful and difficult than preparing for technical interviews. Once you are through them it is very easy to move around and there are no technical interviews, but it also takes on average 7 years of intense studying and heartbreaking failures to get there.

I am not saying technical interviews are perfect. However, it seems the theme is that the grass is greener in other professions, and I don't think that is actually the case. What other profession can you studying your butt off for 6 months and land a job paying over $250k out of college?! Yes preparing for technical interviews is difficult, but boy is it worth it (at least in my opinion). I personally think they are a great opportunity to grow as a developer as well. Anyways, I suppose I have gone on enough.