[mirimir]

I mean that "full ownership" implies "owning the entire stack". Which in any useful context is arguably impossible. So "full ownership" just isn't a useful way to think about this.

I mentioned Freenet and Tor because they're designed to provide privacy and protect against censorship, even though users don't own the full stack.

[pmiller2]

Then, "full ownership" is a meaningless concept, not worth the electrons and brain cycles you and I just wasted on it.

[mirimir]

That's a good way to put it :)

Unfortunately, I didn't think of that :(