[HeXetic]

> Marilyn Manson famously told Michael Moore in 2002’s Bowling for Columbine that, rather than saying anything to Harris and Klebold, if given the chance, he would instead opt to listen to them, because “that’s what no one did.”

Wrong. The quote wasn't about talking to the perpetrators. Moore was asking Manson what he would tell the victim's parents, the community, the other kids at the school, and he said he would listen instead.

It then cuts to Moore interviewing two surviving kids from the school.

[kiwicopple]

Link for anyone looking: https://youtu.be/lrHFB2KP8fc?t=222

  Moore: "If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine, the people in the community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?"

  Manson: "I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say. And that's what no one did."

Regardless of who he was talking about, this is an amazing response from someone who had been vilified for the events that had happened.

[doublerabbit]

His music may be not everyone tastes but Manson is genuinely a decent person.

[jakkyboi]

I went back to the clip and while you are right, that was the question - im almost certain Manson heard "the kids at Columbine" and took it to mean Harris and Klebold and answered that question, not the one that was asked.

[HeXetic]

Maybe, but I don't think so. Before this interview, Moore shows a number of clips from news networks and other talking heads blaming the crime on all sorts of things -- video games, music, etc. Then later Moore interviews the very level-headed parent of a victim who says nobody from any news organization tried to talk to him or listen to what he had to say.

The idea I believe Moore is trying to convey is that news people told the community & survivors why this happened, placing blame according to their own biases (or those of their corporation), instead of asking and investigating and listening. This ties into the title of the film and the result of the next interview with the two survivors: the perpetrators were also heavily into bowling, so how come nobody was blaming that?

Manson may still have misinterpreted the question but his answer does make sense in the context of what Moore shows -- that nobody went and actually listened to the people in the community.

[Tiltowait--]

Nobody was interested in what mass murderers have to say. It just inspires more mass murderers. Did anyone read the manifesto of the New Zealand mosque killer? It was censored for a reason.

[Jtsummers]

It can actually be very important to know what they have to say because it can provide insight into their actions. Whether you agree with their views and actions or not (which likely you do not, in the case of mass murderers). But knowing what they're thinking creates the possibility for intervention in similar cases elsewhere before they go on to commit violent acts.

[mixmastamyk]

Yes, it definitely should be available for prevention research.

[asveikau]

I have sometimes read manifestos of perpetrators of similar incidents because I was trying to understand what possesses a person to do such a thing. The most common conclusion I have made from that is they were mentally ill. They have varying levels of rationalization. Sometimes they have touching stories of their childhood or their grievances, even though they are actually insane and the grievances don't make sense.

[young_unixer]

> I have sometimes read manifestos of perpetrators of similar incidents because I was trying to understand what possesses a person to do such a thing.

I think I understand where the frustration comes from, at least for mass shooters in the recent years. It comes from the hypocrisy of the progressive discourse pushed by mainstream media.

Of course their manifestos don't make any sense. In part because 95% of people (including me) couldn't write a coherent and logical political essay to save their lives. But also because they don't understand where their anger comes from. They vaguely know mainstream media is manipulating people and pushing pernicious ideas, but they can't explain why they're wrong. So they just resort to saying the opposite of what mainstream media is saying.

"You say we should have open borders and everyone that says otherwise is a racist bigot? Oh I'll teach you what it's like to be a racist bigot. How do you like that?"

"I'm transphobic for saying that a trans woman is biologically male? I'll show you what a real transphobe looks like"

Meanwhile, progressive media keeps publicly jerking off to their moral superiority and writing articles about how they're saving the world from these abhorrent alt-right white supremacists, which just keeps adding fuel to the fire.

This is not a new idea, Rob Hoffman has a good article about how Trump rose to power thanks to 'liberal smugness' [0], but I think everyone knows that already.

[0] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/how-the-left...

[simon1ltd]

I read “ A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy“ by Sue Klebold last year. It’s on my must-read book for anyone seeking insight.

Mental illness definitely played a role, and a mix of disorders turned into a toxic mix.

This book is a no-holds-barred look into the events from the mother of one of the perpetrators. She apologizes for his actions, and for not being able to stop him — but there’s absolutely no victim blaming.

Very much worth the read.

[Thorrez]

If Marilyn Manson was saying to listen to the shooters, I believe he was saying to listen to the shooters before the shooting (so as to try to befriend them and prevent the shooting).

[msla]

> Did anyone read the manifesto of the New Zealand mosque killer?

I did. Not very interesting.

[watwut]

Why would you assume that? It makes no sense.

Definitely not considering history of that shooting interpretation.

[dehrmann]

As I got older, remembered Marilyn Manson, and did some research about him as a phenomenon, and in a lot of his interviews around the time he was (un)popular, he came off as thoughtful, intelligent, and articulate. And dressed like a freak, but that's his schtick.

[seppin]

Also, what an amazing power to give to someone as a reward for their violence.

[dagav]

Yeah, plus we already know what they had to say because they wrote numerous blog posts before hand. They wanted to cause as much carnage as possible to take revenge against reality.