[dragonwriter]

> By definition trade in capitalism is done willing.

Not by the definition used by the people who named and defined capitalism.

It's true that after that, the conceit that capitalism involved only voluntary, uncoerced trade was adopted by it's defenders as a rationalization of the system, but that was not true of either the specific real world systems for which the name “capitalism” was coined to refer or subsequent real world examples, and certainly has nothing to do with the definition of capitalism.

If you want to distinguish the proposed scenario from capitalism, it would be in that it does not involve private property rights in the means of production, but instead on their forcible seizure and defense, but that's a slippery distinction because commonly such systems evolve into a degree of legitimization and trade with recognized rights between the parties, and the roots of capitalist property also start in forcible seizure which is later legitimized.

[dionysus_jon]

If someone living today called themselves a capitalist would you expect them to be involved in "forcible seizure and defence"?

[dragonwriter]

> If someone living today called themselves a capitalist would you expect them to be involved in "forcible seizure and defence"?

Given the diversification most capitalists have and looking at what major corporations do globally, yes, though I'd also expect them not to think of themselves that way.

Drug cartel leaders, I'm sure, often have similar self-serving rationalizations of their role.

[dionysus_jon]

Ok, thanks :)

We can't go any further on here, too much ground to cover.

[reedwolf]

>If someone living today called themselves a capitalist would you expect them to be involved in "forcible seizure and defence"?

Do you consider executives of, oh let's say, the Coca-Cola Company, to be capitalists?

[dionysus_jon]

Yes...

Assuming you are probably thinking of linking something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co. ?

Illegal activity is illegal. Capitalism has law and a stable society as a prerequisite.

[nieve]

From related portions of the economy: given the growing use of debtor's prisons, predatory loans, and coercive tactics including armed repossession & bounty hunting dependent on an exploitive for-profit bond regime? Yes. These are not companies rejected by modern capitalism. On a higher economic level private equity's leveraged buyouts are very frequently hostile takeovers that use a company's own resources to seize control of it.