[jedberg]

The very next sentences:

"I couldn’t afford for a simple gesture of empathy, such as a hug or a placed hand on the shoulder, to be misinterpreted as a sign of romantic interest. It went against my natural desire not to comfort someone who was distraught with a big hug, but it’s what I had to do to maintain professional boundaries."

[analbumcover]

I read that. Restrictions on sexual relationships given an uneven power dynamic are common, but an inability to shake someone's hand or put a hand on a shoulder? That's not maintaining professional boundaries, it's paranoia.

It is also a standard that she is clearly imposing on herself, which is what makes it so bizarre. She wasn't just conforming to some overbearing rule of the organization, she thought this was a necessary component of effective leadership. Which makes me question her judgement in general.

[jedberg]

Ask some women in leadership positions what they think about this. You’ll probably be surprised at how many agree with her.

[analbumcover]

I wouldn't be surprised. But who is going to put up with that kind of aloof and standoffish behavior? You're probably going to come across like a monarch that doesn't want to come into contact with the common folk.

[nicthesailor]

As a female seafarer (26 years at sea), I know exactly where she's coming from. Never mind touching, the times I've sat and talked about anything other than work (non-sexual, just friendly) have invariably resulted in at least one or two crew members either taking it as an invitation to harass me or assault me, or caused friction with the rest of the crew.

In my experience, I can be friendly, but I have to stay distant for safety (mine) and discipline (the whole crew).

[analbumcover]

This is interesting, were you the captain for many of those years? I could totally understand a crew member being antisocial, but it seems like the crew would resent a leader who acted this aloof even if they were doing it for the reasons you mention. It just seems very different than the usual distance that hierarchy creates.

I've only done a few casual sailing trips where everyone got nude as soon as we were out of sight of land and it was so cramped you'd have to be a contortionist not to touch anyone. A tanker ship or something would be vastly different, but it still seems like there would be plenty of situations, e,g, rough weather, where you need you need to be willing to touch other people. I doubt you'd get on a crab fishing vessel if other crew members refused to touch you.

[nicthesailor]

No, I worked my way up from deckhand to chief mate on deep sea cargo ships. Got my master's ticket in January (finally).

The crew don't generally resent it - I'm friendly and approachable, just distant. I shut them down when they ask personal questions, but I listen if they want to talk about their problems. In a public area. With the door open. The rest of the time, I study, work, eat and sleep. It helps that I'm usually on 00:00-0600 & 12:00-18:00 watches, so I'm working during two meals and sleeping during the third.

Where there's a practical reason for physical contact, of course I touch people. Apart from anything else, I'm often the medical officer, but there's a difference between, "Help me with this mooring line," and, "I'm having a bad day, can I have a hug?" Even if I really could do with a hug.

And the types guys who do get in a huff about it? They're invariably the same personality types that make that rule necessary.

[kharak]

Thanks for sharing, I can easily believe that. On a side note, how does a seafarer end up on hackernews? (I know nothing about your profession).

[nicthesailor]

Lol. Fair question. I got lost online one day and ended up here. I like the relative civility and thoughtfulness of the discussions, so I usually lurk.

I'm also the default on-board IT support/education person, and I learn a lot here that helps me with that. I managed to get several computer-security-related changes pushed through a few ships back based on hackernews references.

[bluntfang]

Just curious, what do you do for a living? Have you ever done professional work where your life is on the line constantly?

[analbumcover]

I'm an academic who has never been to Antarctica.

But I've done at least one mountaineering expedition (recreational not professional) every year for the past 30 years, where our lives would have been on the line if we had incompetent people with us, even taking precautions there have still been a handful of questionable moments over the years. I've only done 3 long-haul type expeditions that were 4+ months. I also worked as a guide for 2 years back in my 20s on much less technical trips, but those were always the most dangerous because you have people you don't know who have varying skill levels and experience.

In my experience (other than the guide work) we never had a de facto leader unless one member was vastly more experienced in general or had more previous experience with a given region or specific route.

That's obviously different than being in a research station with a large group of people for a year. But I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable leading an expedition to Antarctica if I had only seen snow once before as was apparently the case with the author of this article. Also, on real expeditions (not just living in a research station) you are constantly touching other members of your group, it's absolutely necessary and there's no way around it.

I realize there are going to be differences between a research station gig and even a moderately technical alpine route, but this woman's approach just seems unreasonable.

[bacon_waffle]

I can understand how an Antarctic station might look on the surface like a mountaineering trip, but in my experience (a less serious climber than yourself, have deployed to the Ice for the US program on both sides of the logistics/science line) there's actually not much in common between the two, I guess outside of the small field camps which are almost(?) always summer-only affairs and usually run by mountain guides.

There's a great book, Big Dead Place, which is the best window in to the USAP culture that I've come across. It's a bit dated, but I can assure you that the crazy sorts of things in that book still happen - it's shocking/beautiful that it works at all.

[bluntfang]

I really don't think you can compare recreational experiences to professional experiences here. I see that you've done some cool stuff, but it really isn't the same as you can't always choose your team mates for a variety of reasons, which is why women have to take extreme care.