[hyperman1]

I recently learned some about the Chinese vision: China aspires to long-term stability first.

China had in its past times where the country's internal organization broke down, resulting in famine, ... Lots of people died.

As a result, Confucianism has risen: A vision where individual freedom is seen as a danger to that internal organization. Hence, it should be tempered by strict loyalty to the family, with the whole China being a sort of extended family. The elders and superiors should be obeyed, not necessarily because they are better people, but because this represents stability. In turn, these elders and superiors should be better people, with traits as benevolence,integrity and righteousness.

I am happy I live in Europe, not China, but looking at the state of most western democracy's today, I can have some understanding for this vision.

[ksec]

Um....

There were hundred of other thoughts at the time and Confucianism hasn't risen. Confucianism was used as a tool to solidify the power within the Empire. The only thing you will do is kneel and obey.

And China aspires to long-term stability first is not about China in itself, but the long term control of power. Which for thousands of years has proved what should now be a famous line, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.

[justicezyx]

I cannot help to ask: what are your background on Chinese history? What do you recommend for an overview on Confucius?

You seem articulate thousands of years of history, and one of the most ancient philosophy and culture system, and it’s impact in so few words that I dare not to challenge - because, as a Chinese myself, I never gained enough understanding on Confucius, and had no capacity to summarize its impact or origin to even fellow Chinese friends.

In the end, I doubt your credential as a competent commentator on such a complicated topic.

But I have no intellectual capacity to either endorse or deny your statement.

[TheGallopedHigh]

A great new-ish podcast is: The Fall of Civilizations Podcast. They have one on the Han dynasty, the first in China’s history. Worth a listen.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U9W7cOMGXyA

[baybal2]

When I see Americans talking about confucianism, I want to laught.

You got it all wrong.

What you say makes no sense to a Chinese not in its literal, or proverbial sense, and talk like these usually get grannies pointing finger to foreigners on the bus, quietly giggling "oh, those foreigners thinking something on China again..."

[hyperman1]

OK fair enough. I am no American, BTW, and every culture talking about every other culture has this problem, in both ways.

Now I do see a fairly negative response here, without anything to replace it. So make us all on hacker news one of the lucky 10 000 today: What does China aspire to? What are the overarching themes in the Chinese view of the world, and how do they differ from the Western ones?

I recently learned some about the Chinese vision. If it's wrong, I'd like to learn something more.

[andor]

Can you give a better explanation?

[baybal2]

> Can you give a better explanation?

1. 99% regular Chinese citizens can't give more .... about what some ancient philosopher wrote. They have more important things to care, like earning a living. It is like telling that most Americans are... Aristotelians because few of them were of Greek extraction (even when their descendants today cannot say a word in Greek...)

2. Chinese culture was not formed by ancient dictums. The culture of China was razed with fire in seventies, and rebuilt from blank sheet. The level of "culture" of a regular citizen was reduced to just being able to read, and write, and even that was not a given.

And even before the revolution, Chinese culture people knew had zero things in common to what these people think. The man would be laughed out not only by grannies on the bus today, but equally so a century ago.

3. If there is any cultural imprint on China at all, it would be Russia. Chinese north of Shanghai are effectively indistinguishable by what is in their head from most Russians, other than them speaking Chinese.

Only a more rural, impassable, and much less well off Southern China managed to preserve few vestiges of what China was before the revolution.

To most Chinese citizens, a travel to HK, or Taiwan is a giant cultural shock. It is because them suddenly realising themselves being so much less Chinese than they though they were.

[PakG1]

> To most Chinese citizens, a travel to HK, or Taiwan is a giant cultural shock. It is because them suddenly realising themselves being so much less Chinese than they though they were.

Given that I know a lot of both Hong Kong people and mainland Chinese people, I am really not sure from where you're getting this idea.

[_m8pt]

As a Chinese person from north of Shanghai, what in the world do you mean by “indistinguishable by what is in their head from most Russians”????

[baybal2]

Similar in what their attitudes are to so many things in life. Thoughts on having a family, marriage, treatment of women, ideas on social status, work, career, material wellbeing, and down to things like hobbies, and free time spending. And their tourists... especially northeastern ones...

Everything within cultural gravity of Beijing, and Northeast has been molded very early in history of PRC, and was pretty much an attempt to copy USSR 1-to-1 before Mao cut ties.

[_m8pt]

Wow. I am a northeastern Chinese. I like Russian people, but all I can say is that this is a very surface level analysis on my culture.

[spyckie2]

There's a theory (known as rice culture theory) that states that rice farming requires cooperation from your neighbors to farm successfully, which solidified a culture of collective values. Wheat, the Western staple, has no such requirements.

If you depended on your neighbor's cooperation, the ideals of Confucianism help the village survive.

If your neighbors were like the Americans who refuse to put on a mask, your whole village would starve to death within the generation. The theory explains why individualism was suppressed and collective values so uplifted in Chinese culture.

[yorwba]

Confucius was born in what is now Shandong province, which is far enough north to be not very suitable for rice production. The most important crop is wheat. The southern provinces where rice is more common weren't even part of the Chinese cultural sphere at the time.

The theory doesn't explain anything, since it doesn't even get the agricultural facts right.

[spyckie2]

sorry if I explained it poorly. Here's an article about it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/05/08/310477497/ri...