[nikitaga]

With rare specialized exceptions, pretty much nobody needs all this complexity. Certainly not a simple app like AnyList. All this flexibility is not free, it comes at the cost of obviousness, as they described. It's not worth it much of the time.

The real problem is Apple shoving their proprietary, poorly designed services down everyone's throats.

No, I don't want to use icloud email, I already have an email address. No, I don't want to provide a "real" email address after I provided an obfuscated one. No it's not my fault that messages sent to the obfuscated one will go to some icloud inbox that I didn't create and I don't read. No, it's also not my fault that when I contact support I do it from my normal email address and not from the obfuscated one (how would I even do that). It's not the support's fault that they can't connect the two.

It's not the user's fault, and it's not the developer's fault. Apple is the sole designer of this mess. There is no excuse.

[dev_tty01]

You can create an iCloud account with your own email address. That avoids getting another email address.

When using Apple login, Apple offers the choice of providing an anonymous email to the third party or your actual email. It's up to you. Its about user choice. More privacy or less. Apple wants you to have a choice. Use it or not.

[nikitaga]

Then why do most of my non-tech relatives have an @icloud.com address that they never needed and never read?

Blame the user all you want, but their "choice" was guided by Apple designed UI and Apple provided defaults. Whatever it is, it's producing optimal outcomes for Apple and no one else.

[fnordsensei]

I have one too (which I've since swapped for an email I actually use). I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I think it was the only option for a while (inherited from MobileMe, perhaps), or at least it wasn't clear that you could/should add another email.

Either way, Apple could definitely do something with regards to make it easier/more obvious to replace it with a useful email address, especially now as it becomes a federated identity provider.

[dev_tty01]

I can't answer that. However, if you go to appleid.apple.com to create a new AppleID, you must use an existing email address.

When I create a new user account on the mac, it asks the new user if they want to create an AppleID. The default is to use their existing email address. You must specifically select an option to get an iCloud account. If you purchase an Apple device, you again have the option of an iCloud account or using your existing email address for your AppleID. Apple is not using some deceptive UI to get you to create an iCloud email address.

However, I guess you still feel it is somehow evil that Apple does allow you to get a free email account where the provider does NOT read your email content and use it to target ads at you. Suboptimal for Apple from a pure profit perspective.

[nikitaga]

Whatever the UI is now, doesn't speak for what it used to be over the years. The cumulative effect matters.

There are tons of people with @icloud.com email addresses that they never use who will fall into the login / customer support traps described in the article.

But sure let's not even acknowledge those very real problems, deny Apple's role in this, and blame users. That will surely solve the issues.

[dev_tty01]

I think you are missing the point and are perhaps letting this app vendor create an impression of a large problem based on anecdotal evidence. Perhaps they are just whining because they don't want to lose all that data. I have no idea that that is the case, but we can't rule it out.

Tons of people falling into these alleged traps? Really? What is that based on?

Apple is saying they want their platform to support personal privacy. If an app on their platform offers third party sign-ons that are known to abuse personal privacy, that app must offer Apple's solution that respects personal privacy. Despite it being an imperfect solution, I personally am thrilled that I have that option and I'm happy with Apple taking a stand on one of the most important issues today and going forward.

Some occasional customer support issues vs. providing customers with a real solution to significant privacy issues. From a user perspective the value of having such a choice is high.

Nobody is blaming users. Frankly, I think users are smarter than we typically assume. The support situation is really pretty trivial. If you save the onboarding email sent to the anonymized email address, you've got all you need to interact with an app customer support. People will quickly learn this and get on board if they want the privacy benefit. Its just not a big deal.

Apple's role is about increasing privacy and respecting their user's right to privacy. I fully acknowledge that. Does this create some hassle for app vendors? Yes, but I don't care about that in relation to the greater gain.