[j-pb]

Yet years later there is still no good solution for that space and IndexedDB is a total clusterfuck.

I'd be far more worried about the mess at the core of the web, css and rendering, than about exploitable bugs of SQLite. The fact that a RCE in SQLite is HN worthy is indicative of that. Browsers have tons of RCE that are fixed every year, but it happens silently because everybody is so numbed to it.

The quoted argument is a copout of them. HTML is also a "Living Standard" a.k.a. we just implement whatever we feel like, and write it down once we feel like it has stabilised a bit. They could have done the same for SQL, but NoSQL was en vogue at the time so they pretended that SQL needs to somehow hold up to much higher standards than the usual mess they produce.

SQLite is probably one of the few pieces of software that is actually trustworthy, unlike the dumpster fires of C++ and feel good essays, that we call browsers.

[vertex-four]

Web standards are meant to have multiple independent implementations. That’s pretty much the entire reason that Google pays for Firefox at this point. “Everyone should just use SQLite” is a slippery slope to “everyone should just use Blink”.

[j-pb]

Blink is exactly a good example on why starting out with SQLite would have been a good idea.

Blink is a fork of Webkit, an engine soo much better than the alternatives, that it almost over-night became the de-facto standard.

Did webkit ruin the web? Eventually apple and google disagreed and blink was forked of off webkit.

The same thing would have happened to SQLite as the foundation of a living WebSQL spec.

It's ironic that Mozilla pushed IndexedDB through, yet they were among those too lazy to provide their own implementation. Instead they simply dump everything into SQLite, same strategy done by Apple. They left it to google to implement the only differing implementation based on LevelDB.

But hey, it's totally important to have multiple independent implementations...

[vertex-four]

There are at least three implementations of IndexedDB. Two are built on top of SQLite, but are different codebases aside from that, as far as I'm aware - I don't think Mozilla just merged in Webkit's IndexedDB implementation. Firefox's implementation came out well before Safari's, for a start.

What would be your opinion if everybody just decided to use Google's implementation of WebRTC wholesale, rather than building out their own systems? What if Mozilla decided to rebase on top of Blink, and give up on building its own rendering engine, tomorrow?

[j-pb]

I wouldn't mind if they realise that their implementation is bad enough to be replaced, it would be a win for all. The implementations would start to diverge again anyways. The engineering time saved by piggybacking of a working implementation can the be reinvested into improving the fork massively, or into simplifying the design and specification.

Like I said, webkit and blink are the perfekt example for this.

As for the first point. It doesn't really matter if they have their own glue code, all the important parts are shared.

[vertex-four]

Right, so the web was a wonderful place when IE6 was the only browser anyone developed for, and for the short period of time when Chrome was the only browser anyone developed for. This definitely didn't affect anyone's ability to choose a browser which met their needs, and definitely didn't result in half-baked and overly complex specifications being forced through the standards process by the only browser vendor with any power.

If Google got their way, we'd be shipping modified LLVM bitcode to clients ("PNacl"), and every browser would be shipping some random fork of LLVM stuck in the past forever. If Microsoft got their way, GMail would be an ActiveX plugin.

Gecko has massive improvements over Webkit/Blink, btw - WebRender is huge.

[j-pb]

You're forming a false dichotomy, and you're mistaking competition of code with competiton of institutions.

Having different organisations with different goals is what prevents these scenarios.

Otherwise the webkit blink thing wouldn't have been successfull.

Mozilla could also have forked blink and started replacing it with rust, and you would've gotten the same improvments.

Mozilla could have taken SQLite as a foundation, started a living spec, and immediately begun translating the codebase to rust. The effort would have been the same as for their half assed IndexedDB stuff, but the result would have been much better.

It doesn't matter where a code base comes from, it matters where it goes to. And when it comes to diversity of implementation the repelling forces of different ideas, viewpoints and aesthetics that normally result in dreaded project forks, work for the advantage of all in browsers.

Conways law: The software of projects reflects their social structure.