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by anthony_doan 2179 days ago
Well... I’m glad I bail out of the energy sector stocks. Barrels are too low for shale and fracking.

Texas is going to be hard hit this recession.

1 comments

I think US tax payers will bail out coal, gas and oil companies anyway.
Sad.... I know a lot of jobs are at stack but why can’t we just let these industries die?
It's important to note that energy subsidies aren't inherently pro fossil fuels or anti green energy.

Their only priority is to ensure that a given percentage of energy demand is met by domestic (or closely allied) suppliers. There are both National Security and Economic reasons for this. Not only does it prevent war by insuring no enemy thinks they can quickly force a surrender by cutting off energy supplied, but it also helps guard against things such as the OPEC oil shock of the '70s.

What energy subsidies are trying to avoid is a scenario where the majority of fossil fuel is produced in the countries where it is cheapest, such as the Middle East or Russia. Such a scenario would give those countries a massive amount of economic power.

If you want energy subsidies to not go to fossil fuels, you simply need to eliminate demand for fossil fuels.

As fossil fuel demand drops, the energy subsidies assigned to them will also drop. They are only trying to maintain a domestic percentage. So cut domestic demand by 50% and fossil fuel subsidies will also drop by roughly half.

But subsidies could have pushed certainly wind generation 50 years ago, rather than push oil and require a huge navy and military to secure our overseas oil interests.

Solar probably could have been pushed substantially as well with better research funding.

Battery storage probably could have been pushed for practical EVs earlier as well.

Sure there's a lot of monday morning quarterbacking there, but we are in a major hole with GHG levels in the atmosphere, and our oil and gas friendly policies over the last century are a major cause.

In the 20-year timeframe that would be great (a decarbonized economy), but short-term, it's really important that the US doesn't depend on Saudi Arabia as a sole oil producer, and that means maintaining some level of oil pumping infrastructure

SA, Russia, and Venezuela are not the international players you want to have leverage over US foreign policy. If we let a weird unexpected market rout (like covid) wipe the shale producers out entirely, we really screw ourselves into letting SA call the shots on the world stage. Cuz you know SA and Russia are NOT going to let their pumping capacity collapse.

(To be clear I'm not arguing for a bailout to prevent banks or investors from taking haircuts on the investments — those haircuts have to happen. But "letting all the jobs go" means letting the companies dissolve, vs reorganize, and that's not a good idea, IMO).

Why not put heavy tariffs against those sources of oil? Voter resentment?

Always neat seeing how much cheaper gas costs in the US compared to Canada, meanwhile the rhetoric would cause you to think otherwise

It would crush the economy. Everything still runs on oil except the fraction of Teslas out there. Not to mention everything made of plastic and other oil derivatives.
No.

Most stuff runs on electricity.

60% or more is generated by oil + gas.

You bring up a good point. My initial thought was that we would switch over to clean energy but to power the whole us is probably not feasible in the near term
Roughly 70 percent of light vehicles can move from petroleum to electrification without any additional generation capacity in the US.

Source is an NREL research paper I read ~7 years ago, can’t find the link at the moment.