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by forgot_user1234 2186 days ago
Money is the worst proxy for optimising returns for the society. Lemme know if you have anything better.

Greed and selfish pursuit leads to wealth creation

5 comments

>Lemme know if you have anything better.

I think there are some pretty obvious things. Improvement of the environment, health, safety, educational attainment, military prowess and so on.

As Michael Sandel put it, since the 80s we've moved from a market economy to a market society. Markets aren't used as tools any more to further social ends, they've become ends in themselves. We don't measure success in human flourishing, we measure it in dollars.

Ironically this has made much long-term wealth creation impossible. Many companies in Silicon Valley were sustained by the government pursuing strategic goals, in particular the military.

Industrial ecosystems don't spring out of the ground because of selfishness and greed, they're created by institutions.

> Industrial ecosystems don't spring out of the ground because of selfishness and greed, they're created by institutions.

barrin92 meet Charles koch.

Our representatives are theoretically responsible for balancing different social interests, including social welfare and money. I think that is better.

I'd rather fix the thing where elected officials don't seem to do that job rather than just throwing up my hands and saying the market knows best... seems like a pretty extreme position to just say that money and pricing is the only tool in the toolbox.

> balancing different social interests

okay. how can you measure social welfare?

> seems like a pretty extreme position to just say that money and pricing is the only tool in the toolbox.

I never said that. You said it. You countered it.

> Greed and selfish pursuit leads to wealth creation

Yeah, but for the people doing the actual work or not?

If you create value for others and they show there happiness with money. Congrats you are rich
People in sweatshops create a lot of value for others ...
> Money is the worst proxy for optimising returns for the society.

Free markets have done far more for society than any other system that's been tried.

I'd say social democracy has done more.

It's easy to tally up the greatness of the free market when you redefinento boundaries of society to exclude the huge negative costs imposed on slaves and laborers.

> exclude the huge negative costs imposed on slaves

What slaves? That was a century ago.

Slavery is not a free market system.
Um... I agree the word "free" is misleading but once you're in a legal system that condones slavery then of course it would be a free market. I'm having a hard time imagining the slave trade arising without a market much more free than the people forced through it.

Markets are amoral. That's why we shouldn't rely on them to solve social problems.

A free market is one where transactions take place absent fraud or force.

Slavery doesn't remotely qualify.

Couldn’t it just be a coincidence that the most recent wealthy societies are the wealthiest societies in history, and they also tend to claim to adhere to “free markets” ideas? The wealth could actually be caused by compounding benefits of technology or even exploitation of other societies, and may have little to do with how their public schools describe their economic system in middle school civics courses.
Except it happens over and over again - when countries turn to free markets, they get much much wealthier. None of them get poorer.
I agree.
China is doing social scores?