[rickyplouis]

Thought it would be relevant but a few years back California was also in the news for building a gang database of children as young as one year old (for which they've since acknowledged as a mistake).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/calgang-california-gang-databas...

The phrasing of "predictive policing" sounds fairly harmless, but in practice it is a way of finding out which kids are going to be future criminals, thus robbing them of their self-determination.

[tehjoker]

In practice, it's a method of entrenching racist practice. Certain groups are profiled and criminalized, and therefore have criminal records so more police are sent to predicted "hot zones" which results in a feedback loop.

What is never said is that crimes are socially determined. Which is more harmful? Shoplifting by a poor person or wage theft by a business owner? Clearly the latter as an actual person who can't afford it is harmed. Wage theft is hugely more prevalent but is treated as a civil issue rather than a crime. Poor people trying to get one over on the system that impoverishes them lands them in jail while the people that own the society get away with doing whatever they want.

[SpicyLemonZest]

I'm just not sure this makes the point you think it does. There are certainly some who see crime as a morally neutral way to "get one over on the system that impoverishes them", but most people find this to be an abhorrent viewpoint and have no interest in accommodating it.

[jirdperson]

I’m not who you responded to, FYI.

That said, crimes are simply whatever those in power deem them to be. Not only does this imply an obvious disconnect between legality and morality, but for groups not adequately represented by those in power, it can make living within the law virtually impossible. Take the gay community, for example. It was only in 2003 that the US Supreme Court struck down state laws banning sex between same-sex partners. At the time, 14 states still had such laws on the books - 11 still do today (even though they’re now unenforceable, they’ve resulted in multiple arrests since the 2003 ruling).

A few decades earlier, gay sex was essentially illegal throughout the entire US. Do you have any interest in accommodating the viewpoint that gay Americans being gay Americans before the past 20-50 years (depending on the state they resides in) were morally acceptable, despite habitually engaging in criminal activity? Or would that be considered abhorrent?

[SpicyLemonZest]

I certainly am skeptical of the idea of victimless crimes, for the reasons you say. But theft isn't a victimless crime, even if you're stealing from a large corporation and not a mom-and-pop store. I think it's hard to seriously engage with the idea that theft might not be a bad thing.

[tehjoker]

That's the viewpoint of someone that benefits from the system. Of course it's abhorrent if you think it works as its inimical to the functioning of the system.

[kortilla]

Wage theft is treated as a civil issue because it’s not actually “theft” despite its name. It’s not a business taking money away from someone, it’s the business failing to pay money for a contractual obligation.

Do you want a failure to pay your plumber to be prosecuted as theft?

[QuotedForTruth]

It already is. Its called theft of services. Never seen it applied to a conventional employee though, but why shouldn't it be?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services#:~:text=Thef....

[kortilla]

No, if you dispute that the plumber did not do the work correctly, it is not theft of services. Theft of services is for a subset of fraudulent behavior.

[tehjoker]

This is kind of what I was talking about. Why do you think paying the plumber is optional?