[aka1234]

I too am shocked that Wikileaks would publish tabloidish material with little public value.

Next thing you know, I'll hear that Wikileaks posted private emails of a government official talking about pizza. Emails which spawned ridiculous conspiracies about satanic child abuse cults headquartered in the basement of a pizza shop that doesn't have a basement.

That would never happen. Not at an august, hard-hitting journalistic outlet like Wikileaks. /s

[SkyBelow]

Yeah, the conspiracy theory is just insane. Almost as insane as the conspiracy theory that one of the world's largest religious organizations was engaging in something similar, except at a scale spanning every continent except Antarctica and having done so for at least as long as living memory.

For another conspiracy theory, what about the idea that if a conspiracy was uncovered, instead of denying it those with something to lose would double down on the most exaggerated parts of the conspiracy to down out the less insane and more likely parts. Get the public to focus on the pizza shop and not on the (since deceased) billionaire.

[akiselev]

> Yeah, the conspiracy theory is just insane. Almost as insane as the conspiracy theory that one of the world's largest religious organizations was engaging in something similar, except at a scale spanning every continent except Antarctica and having done so for at least as long as living memory.

One is a conspiracy about a pedophile ring in a pizzaria basement when no such basement exists. The other is a conspiracy that has dozens if not hundreds of convictions and at least a tacit admission from the institution that it's a problem.

> For another conspiracy theory, what about the idea that if a conspiracy was uncovered, instead of denying it those with something to lose would double down on the most exaggerated parts of the conspiracy to down out the less insane and more likely parts. Get the public to focus on the pizza shop and not on the (since deceased) billionaire.

The mastermind (Ailes) behind the news network responsible for pushing the former conspiracy and distracting from the latter admitted to starting the network for the express purpose of running political interference. It's not really a conspiracy when the conspirators are blatantly open about it - at least not in the colloquial sense. Political interference they're running now against SDNY in order to obstruct the investigation.

The difference in circumstance should be apparent - it's the existence of actual evidence and reliable first hand accounts.

[aka1234]

Pizzagate != Epstein

Leaking Podesta's email spawned a conspiracy theory that high-ranking Democrats were a part of a satanic child abuse and traffic ring. It was specifically partisan.

Meanwhile there are multiple layers to the Epstein case. Yes, Epstein was a nexus of child abuse. He was a terrible human being who got away with years of child abuse because of his money and powerful connections. Yes, he died under mysterious circumstances. And Epstein's close friends and confidants included both Democrats and Republicans.

Conflating Pizzagate with Epstein is just moving the goalposts to exonerate Wikileak's publishing of private emails. Are some of the people involved in the email dump known associates of Epstein? Yes. But that's not what Pizzagate is, nor was Epstein associated with the email dump.

[blaser-waffle]

Don't forget how Epstein had a girlfriend.

Girlfriend's dad was a Big Deal with the Mossad. Like, awarded medals by the Israeli government Big Deal. Like, we can't talk about him in the UK unless we make it an official Parliament discussion -- that is, by law, on the record and can't be sued as libel or slander -- kind of Big Deal.

[SkyBelow]

Imagine if there was something larger than just what that one billionaire was involved in. Kinda like how when stories about the Catholic Church broke there were just a few high level Bishops involved until much more work was done to pull back the curtains.

Now imagine some of that gets leaked in a partisan fashion. Maybe on purpose. Maybe by chance. A cover up could be attempted, but that might bring in more investigation. Maybe it would be better to forcefully corrupt it instead. Go from MK Ultra conspiracy theory to moon landings were faked and the earth is flat conspiracy theory. All you have to do is purposefully 'leak' even crazier stuff while making it hyper partisan so that our existing political divide feeds into it.

Not saying they are equal, but what if they are both views into a larger conspiracy, though one of those views was purposefully corrupted to try to make any similar conspiracy theory be viewed as utter nonsense. Make it so people think moon landings or flat earth instead of MK Ultra or Operation Northwoods.

[krapp]

"I'm not saying it's true, but what if it was true enough?"

You could speculate that about literally anything. It's meaningless conjecture.

[SkyBelow]

It isn't meaningless anymore when we have found that there are multiple national level or greater conspiracies involving some of the most vile things known to mankind. We are 2 for 3 with these three cases and we have seen how corrupted the media and legal system is with handling those two cases (yes, the media eventually did report on them, but go back and look at how the media treated reports on the Catholic abuse before the main story broke and how many individual reports were silenced).

It is like if you catch someone gas lighting you twice, and now this time they are telling you they really didn't do it and are definitely not gas lighting you again. At some point their demand to prove their gas lighting becomes part of the attack itself.

[biscotti]

There were 300,000 children stolen by the Catholic church in just Spain alone and sold for adoption.

My favourite conspiracy theory is the Out Of Africa conspiracy theory.

The Petrolonas Cave findings of Thessaloniki debunked it and suggest the Europeans diverged from Africa probably upto a million years ago. Cambridge University verified the findings and they're the most woke campus in town so it must be true.

[rorykoehler]

Still waiting for a valid explanation of what pizza is code for because they certainly aren’t talking about pizza the food in those emails.

[jlmorton]

Okay, I'll bite. I don't think John Podesta has officially commented on what the emails mean, but I think it's pretty safe to assume it is actually quite literal, and they were indeed talking about a handkerchief, a map, and pizza.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/32795

> Subject: You left something at the Field house > Susan & Herb > I just came from checking the Field house and I have a square cloth handkerchief (white w/ black) that was left on the kitchen island. > Happy to send it via the mail if you let me know where I should send it.

> I also meant to inquire yesterday about the pillows you purchased. I can send them as well, if you let me know where they are in the house.

> Safe travels to all > Kate

> Hi John,

> The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus? They can send it if you want. > I know you're busy, so feel free not to respond if it's not yours or you don't want it.

> Susaner

I mean, they're talking about a handkerchief with a pattern of a map, with various food items on it, like pizza. I have never seen such a handkerchief, but this is almost certainly some sort of a novelty handkerchief with a map of Italy, featuring various types of cuisine common to the region. Which kind of makes sense, since it's a napkin.

Why would you assume it is coded? The realtor emails and says, hey, you forgot your handkerchief. Podesta's friend, who was with him, emails him and says, hey, I think that's your handkerchief, the one with the map and pizza and stuff.

And this is supposed to be unusual? This is just how people talk.

[dvfjsdhgfv]

I somehow hope they were talking about light drugs. Given the amount of storm it caused, it's beyond me why there was no official examination, to say nothing about explanation.

[newacct583]

Official examination of what? I mean, yeah, you're probably right. More likely than not they were talking about weed. Or plausibly sex workers. Something embarassing. Certainly not child trafficking in a literal pizza shop.

> Given the amount of storm it caused

It really didn't. Except for the lunatic who walked into the restaurant with a gun, almost none of this stuff penetrated mainstream media. FOX watchers got their fill, but they weren't swayable votes, by definition. To the eyeballs the Clinton campaign cared about, Pizzagate was a non-issue.

Lefties like me only like to talk about it because it was so crazy insane. This isn't what cost the election.

[IIAOPSW]

Why are you certain they aren't talking about pizza?

[recursive]

You may be waiting for a long time. That doesn't really provide any support for the satanic child sex cult thing either though.

[rorykoehler]

I don’t know what they’re talking about. Could literally be anything but they would only codify something they wanted to hide. It’s very weird but I’m not into speculating.

[lowtolerance]

You’re outwardly speculating that it’s coded speech simply because you lack context.

[oblongx]

Don't forget the 65K in hot dogs.

[blockmarker]

Drugs maybe?

[_curious_]

Has it been proven that those emails were real in the first place?

I too was confused by the use of what appears to be coded language, but then thought to myself: wait, is what I am reading authentic?

[dependenttypes]

The DKIM signatures were valid.

[bassrattle]

Yes, the emails were real. It was proven and never denied.

[ben_w]

Would you even bother trying to confirm or deny emails about pizza? I'd consider it an even bigger waste of time than supplying the long form of a birth certificate after someone decided that the short form wasn’t good enough proof of nationality for someone who was by that point already the elected president.

[AndrewBissell]

It is so ridiculous to call the emails that WikiLeaks published "tabloid" just because a conspiracy theory sprung up around bizarre language which was used in a subset of them. Taken as a whole, they revealed absolutely rank corruption in the higher ranks of the DNC.