[inglor]

When I was in the Israeli army, I personally saw a phone being hacked, info being pulled and the info being used to stop a terrorist attack targeting civilians. I was not involved in the hack (I served in the navy).

In that particular case (but not the majority of cases) the target of the hack was an Israeli citizen who was practicing terrorism (against the Arab minority). After their info was intercepted they were arrested and the situation was de-escalated.

Tech like this saved lives that day. I don't think it justifies the freedom cost, but let's not forget real lives are saved by tools like Pegasus.

[mschuster91]

> Tech like this saved lives that day. I don't think it justifies the freedom cost, but let's not forget real lives are saved by tools like Pegasus.

Additionally, even if the tools are developed and used only by governments that are deemed democratic today (e.g. USA, Israel, Germany) and under strict independent and parliamentary oversight, who can guarantee that future governments of these country will be democratic (obvious recent cases Brazil, Poland, Hungary, but one might also ask that question about the US)?

[robert_foss]

Real lives are destroyed by these tools too.

These are tools of the Regime, and some regimes will wield them against minorities (like Uyghurs in China), journalists (in Mexico and Jamal Khashoggi in Saudi Arabia) and protesters (in Belarus).

[kome]

One good user case doesn't justify selling this tool to autocratic and totalitarian countries, or countries involved in systematic oppression of minorities.

[toyg]

One’s autocratic country is someone else’s ideal of social organization.

Should we stop selling steel to the US because it could be used to put migrant kids in cages, or weapons because it could be used to invade random countries? I’m not saying the answer is obvious, I’m saying the problem is complex and multifaceted.

Take Morocco: not the best government (somewhat theocratic, absolutist monarchy, big on unaccountable and torture-oriented secret police), but overall more peaceful and stable than its neighbors. Do “we” help continuing this state of thing, or do “we” let malcontent bubble up and risk turning it into a failed state and civil war? It’s shades of grey all around, sadly.