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by jamest 2182 days ago
I was surprised to see this on HN! A story, if you'll permit...

I visited two of Ackerman's caves (Spring Valley and Temple of Doom) in May of 2002. It was a few days shy of high school graduation and summer was starting to arrive in Minnesota.

My future Firebase co-founder, Andrew, and our high school classmate, Bob, made the drive down there one Saturday. Bob had been a sort-of pupil of Ackerman's, helping him explore and map the various caves he had found.

The day started innocuously enough with a visit to the main Spring Valley Cave that the article references as being previously owned and equipped to give tours. Bob took us off the steel gantry-ways and into some side passageways and chambers that were rarely trafficked.

It was the second cave, Temple of Doom, that was the more, ah, interesting experience. It has only recently been discovered and wasn't fully mapped yet. We popped open a man-hole cover in the middle of a corn field and dropped down a ~50 foot steel ladder. From there the cave descended in a spiral, with the passageway barely able to fit a human. Bob, typically the most composed human I knew, occasionally burst into fits of expletives, followed by silence. "Uhhh... Bob, everything OK?". Descending a 20-30 degree downward slope with inches to spare on every side, occasionally getting stuck, and with no way to turn-around was hair-raising.

After some undetermined period of time we finally got to the bottom of the spiral. At this point, Bob announced we could either brace ourselves between two sheer, very wet, rock faces and climb up ~100 feet without ropes, or go back the way we came. So... up the rock faces we went. Fortunately nobody slipped.

I can still viscerally feel the elation of emerging into bright afternoon sun of the corn field, grateful and relieved to be uninjured.

This was one of the several intense and bonding experiences Andrew and I had together, and perhaps contributed to why we kept working together despite some early startup failures.

As for Bob, he kept on spending time with Ackerman, until one day he was buried alive by a cave entrance collapse. Ackerman dug him out with a backhoe, but he was a little more wary of caving after.

5 comments

Hah! Similarly surprised to see this here. I spent a little bit of time with John back in the summer of 2007 during a research project at the University of Minnesota. I had just finished my full cave diving certification and got roped into an attempt to push past a sump at the end of Coldwater Cave in northern Iowa. It was unfortunately unsuccessful; after a few dozen feet underwater the passage cinched down to just a few inches wide. Oh well.

The article captures well the cold war between Ackerman and the Minnesota DNR; I was warned not to mention John's name when helping survey part of the DNR's Mystery Cave, and the article says John still hasn't managed to get access to the cave's unsurveyed areas, 13 years later.

Then again, when the DNR blocks you from a cave's public entrance and you respond by hiring a well-borer to drill a private entrance across the road... well, it's not the most friendly of relationships. Photos of that whole process at http://www.cavepreserve.com/goliath.html. If I recall correctly, John took a some pleasure from the fact that the DNR can't access the full extent of Goliath's Cave under their property without first trespassing into passages that he owns. And indeed, the property line is prominently marked on the map linked from that page!

Heya, I haven't gotten out to most of the western US apart from a bit of TAG and Mammoth / Fisher Ridge. Working on that cave diver cert :D.

jeffrharrison@gmail.com

Never thought I'd get sweaty hands from reading a Hacker News comment but here we are. I'm not claustrophobic at all but no way in hell I'm ever doing any spelunking voluntarily.
Spelunking and cave diving stories are always horror stories to me.

I'll _never_ understand how "And then we had to take off all our gear and scoot forward by pushing with our bare toes for 30 minutes to reach the next cave" is perfectly normal for some people...

I was watching this Studio Ghibli movie, The Red Turtle, which is a very calm animated movie with basically no words.

And the guy swims through an underwater cave and gets stuck for a moment.

just a silly animated scene.

...but in that moment I went from relaxed to heart in my throat.

There have been a couple horror/adventure films about people in tight caves. I will never watch these.
Years ago I visited Mammoth Cave, KY. There I learned about cave explorer Floyd Collins. He was trapped in a cave in 1925 and the incident attracted wide attention. I started reading about Collins and this is still one of the most terrifying reads for me. I cannot imagine being trapped so tightly, underground with no light and for so long.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/544782/1925-cave-rescue-...

There was a musical made of this in the 90s. I saw it at the Goodman Theatre in Chicago. Didn't make me as nervous as reading the account of the spiral passageway barely able to fit a human.
This is one of the most harrowing stories that I have ever read.
My wife and I spelunked quite a lot in the East, especially north GA and TN. I thought the cramped muddy passages were a lot of fun, ditto climbing up waterfalls. Prusiking straight up a 100', NBD. We're from FL and GA. Nice stable ground.

And then we lived through a dozen or so Bay Area earthquakes, including '89. I was able to get a ballpark estimate of the speed of the waves by counting the seconds it took them to move through the grasslands on the Bay side of NASA Ames (I was jogging, ground fell away from my feet). Measured the distance, and the result (I forget now), was within 20%.

Gotta different perspective now about how stable rocks are.

I know how you feel. The story of Utah's Nutty Putty cave, the failed rescue attempt and later the movie they made about the failed rescue did this to me as well.
I was sad and frustrated to hear about that story. Personally Nutty Putty freaked me out and I still wish I hadn't gone. The "viscerally uncomfortable" part far outweighed the interest factor.

I remember wondering why I was having to put such a huge amount of conscious effort into the process of turning around to head back to the cave entrance. Feeling stuck, clamped between huge slabs of rock is just not that fun to me. And while someone is saying "you can do it, you got this," describing to you how your limbs are arranged, so that you can even figure out how to move at all...

I had traveled there at age 18 with a few other teenagers. This factor also kind of blows my mind. Another one of the complicating issues was that we were going at the pace of the most experienced among us, who was very much a risk taker. Phew, major respect to spelunkers but I think I got off to the worst start possible, at the worst place possible for a guy like me. Every time I would hear about a tragedy in that cave it made me regret even the idea of cave exploring.

That said, anyone reading this shouldn't let this experience deter them from trying caving at least once. Caving is one of the most underrated and obscure outdoor sports, mostly because it's really hard to go caving without an "in" to the caving community. Caving can be safe and extremely fun if you are going with someone in a local grotto (i.e. caving club), and not all caves have a "spiral passageway barely able to fit a human". If you feel unsafe at any point, no one is going to make you squeeze through that foot-wide and thirty-foot-long tunnel.

There is also obviously a big emphasis in caving communities on safety, such as wearing protective gear and bringing twice as much light/water as you think you'll need. Many areas I've been caving (in Virginia/West Virginia) also have amateur cave rescue volunteers if something does go bad (although they should absolutely be a last resort).

My heart is racing and I'm sweaty just reading this. Caving is not a hobby I plan on exploring.
Wow. That story was chilling. Did Bob survive the collapse?
The writing was a little confusing. "but he was a little more wary of caving after." refers to Bob and not Ackerman
Thank goodness :)