[fourply]

I'm a "startup lawyer" in a different sense - I am a sole practitioner in the worst legal job market in our country's history that has been forced to get out there and find my way without a map. It's tough, but just like any other startup you get out of it what you put in - hard work in school and hard work on the ground have put me in a position where I can get by and probably pay my student loans off in 30 years or so.

Let me say that again. I will probably be able to pay my student loans off in 30 years or so. I have an LL.M. in tax and am hustling for every dime I can get.

The lawyers you're working with in a transaction like this are doubtless badasses. They work for a big firm, in a tall shiny building, with sexy secretaries and bookish paralegals. They have continuously updated libraries, and conference rooms, and expensive subscriptions to LexisNexis and Westlaw. They wear $1000 suits and fly to meetings on a private jet. These things cost money... lots of it.

As a VC investing in startups, you know you have the choice in which companies you trust. The same can be said for attorneys. If you choose flash over substance, you're going to end up paying big bucks every time.

Should it cost $17,000 for a transaction that probably didn't take more than a few hours of an attorney's time? Nope. Whose fault is it that it did? As with any product, the lawyers you've selected are charging what the market will bear and billing you what they know you'll pay.

Spend some time finding an attorney that you can trust that cares more about doing quality work than a fancy office. In NYC, there are some really amazing LL.M. programs - find a recent grad from a tax program. They're certainly able to put together a 'standard' deal and incorporation, and are better equipped to help a startup plan intelligently anyway. They'd be thrilled to have the business and the experience, and you'd get much better service at a reasonable price.

And if you ever decide to invest in an Indiana company.... look me up.

[fredwilson]

i don't entirely agree fourply. there are benefits that come from working with startup lawyers who are part of the "system". they can help a young company in many ways. but they need to figure out how to work more efficiently at the startup phase.

[fourply]

I'm certain that's right - someone unfamiliar with the process will have to invest more time with the first few clients and might stumble a bit at first, but not in ways that would prejudice anyone's interests. The networking advantages a "connected" lawyer can provide to a startup are huge, but a VC like yourself could bring a new lawyer into that world if you wanted to invest the time. I think that investment could pay as many or more dividends than your cash injections to new tech companies.

I don't see the excessive billing as a matter of efficiency, but then again I'm not seeing the billable hour statements you get. I see it as a symptom of the bloat that has created a huge crash in the legal marketplace, but I may be wrong.

I think you have the power to create the change you're looking for, perhaps just by starting this dialogue - but I know you could do it by finding a young lawyer to engage with personally as well.

[jmm]

I like this retort, fourply. Fred is basically complaining into the void here if he's not willing to put real pressure on the shiny law firms by considering going elsewhere if they don't shape up. Kinda weird actually that he showed his hand here...