Ask HN: As a dev, what are the major anti-competitive issues with App Stores?

[getpolarized]

The issue with Hey being blocked by Apple has made me want to build a central list of issues that are problematic and anti-competitive and place a harsh burden on independent developers:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/18/21296180/apple-hey-email-app-basecamp-rejection-response-controversy-antitrust-regulation

I think a short list would be:

- requiring / forcing the use of their APIs - arbitrary reasons for termination of your app - when deleting + restoring your app all reviews are lost - No ability for developers to report false reviews

... this has been evolving for a decade or more so would be nice to hear what you guys thing as I'm sure I'm missing some.

[davidajackson]

The fact that if Apple ever copies you, they will have a 30% margin over you (& 15% after first year) with subscriptions. Not sure if you have them listed but Spotify made a big deal of this and even hired some animators to make this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyZ5jzxsCmw

As far as I understand Apple basically said, "we do the work to maintain the app store" which is true, but Spotify sure put a lot of effort into that video. 30% IMO is too high. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19377322

[hibiscus4156]

Not exactly relevant but thought you may find interesting. https://youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com/

[burtonator]

This is awesome. I assume it was created to point out problems with the apple store?

[zepto]

Is anyone interested in also building a list of the positives?

There is a general call for the dismantling or regulation of the App Store or forcing it to be possible to install other app stores.

If we are going to list the burdens, we should also list the benefits.

For example - preventing governments from forcing privacy destroying apps on people. E.g. the UK is now using Apple and Google’s decentralized API rather than sending everyone’s location data to Palantir.

Forcing the use of APIs, also protects the user against resource misuse - I.e. app that drain the battery or waste bandwidth etc.

Any notion of a ‘burden’ is relative to some counterfactual.

Do we mean the burden would be reduced if we were dealing with more stores?

Or do we mean compared to how things were before there was an App Store?

Or do we mean we want the government to make the rules rather than Apple?

Apple is imperfectly protecting consumers from various kinds of harm done by bad developers.

In other industries when there is no store or trusted broker the government ends up regulating the suppliers with licensing.

Would you prefer to need a software development license and liability insurance over complying with Apple’s rules?

What’s your opinion of cookie dialogs on every web app?

That’s the direct result of the web being an open space that is regulated by governments rather than Apple.

[karmakaze]

> What’s your opinion of cookie dialogs on every web app? That’s the direct result of the web being an open space that is regulated by governments rather than Apple.

No. They're both the same thing. One entity deciding a policy that is not in the best interest of the participants in the ecosystem.

[zepto]

Right but that’s what people are asking for. They just want the entity to be their respective governments instead of Apple.

It’s worth noting that if the EU or the US decide to regulate app stores, so will all the repressive regimes around the world.

[karmakaze]

Not the same, regulating economy != deciding which apps allowed in store. We want governments to govern, as in set rules of engagement: break up monopolies. We don't want governments to run app stores, we want app stores not to be monopolies and run by any party able to do so.

[factorialboy]

The very fact that an App Store is the ONLY way for a normal user to install an app. That itself is restrictive and anti competitive.

[andrefuchs]

Some important APIs are only available for Apple and not for 3rd party developers. See the recent Spotify vs Apple conflict.