[lymeeducator]

T cell responses are interesting. Infectolab (https://www.infectolab-americas.com/) and its originator Armin (Germany) are using T cell responses for tick borne diseases like: Borellia (Lyme), Bartonella and Babesia because antibody testing is difficult for these (broken via CDC specs as most labs won't test key proteins 31, 34 and never indicate which antibodies are present). Bartonella is very hard to test for with antibody and PCR. It really depends on lab specialty. The sars-cov-2 antibody tests are unpredictable in quality, so nearly useless (my dr is 0-50 via Quest and many people had + PCR).

In short, our immune context (genetic phenotype) is unique! We need a lot more data from everyone to start making accurate correlations. We do not measure T-cells, cytokines, mast cells, b-cells, HLA (partly how we potentially make antibodies) at any meaningful level to provide much confidence. Many natural/industrial substances suppress our T-cell responses and generally innate immune system (metals, mold toxins, etc), so we also need to start accounting for those.

It's a long road we have in front of us. Hopefully the medical system supports patient data ownership and research to improve on our obvious ignorance.

[erentz]

Note that Armin Labs are considered quacks by many. For one example [1]. I will leave it to others to do your own research but just wanted to recommend caution about their use. Especially for diagnosis of Lyme, plenty of tragic stories of people getting an Armin positive test while negative on the others and then being encouraged through years of serious antibiotic treatments only to have always been negative all along.

[1] https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/documentary-undercov...

[lymeeducator]

I mentioned Armin/Invecto since they are looking at T-cell responses to pathogens. Much of the prolonged antibiotic treatment is no longer common practice. It damages the GI, suppresses portions of the immune system and is in many cases bypassed by 2 resistant forms of Lyme (round body starvation form & biofilm colonies). Most of my testing has been through Igenex, which has a lot of experience with antibody testing that places like Quest screw up. The typical Western Blot for Borellia (Lyme) is not a frequent test for many of the labs and requires 5 - 7 IgM or IgG that won't form in the patient because their immune system is too suppressed to manifest all of them. For example, the outer protein of Lyme does not have to shift and result in another antibody presentation because the host immune system has not forced it to. The CDC spec deliberately ignores two specific antibody proteins OSP 31, 34 as do the common tests and instructs most labs not to reveal which antibodies the patient has. Therefore, that patient might have some, but not all of the "required" antibodies.

As I mentioned above, metals & mold toxins can generate a lot of inflammation in some people that manifest as "foggy brain", joint aches, etc. It takes time and diagnostic testing paired with treatment protocols. Some people cannot process Aluminum and Mercury forms out of their body without relying on Glutathione (limited detox pathways, start with HLA genetic SNPs).

It's a good thing most western medicine doctors never prescribe expensive pharmaceuticals long term ... oh wait ;-)

[erentz]

Curious about your thoughts on a patient that tested both the Quest and IgeneX immunoblots at the same time. The Quest showing 5 positive bands. And the IgeneX no positive bands. Then repeated the same two tests four months later at the same time with the same results. So Quest repeatedly CDC positive, IgeneX repeatedly negative. How would you interpret that?

[lymeeducator]

I would ask which Quest lab specifically ran the test as lab quality can vary. I have not seen mainstream labs return all of the antibody stains present in some time, they usually indicate (+/-) for IgM (less likely) or IgG (more likely). The count is also usually indicated (titer level). It also depends which antibody proteins are present. Many of them overlap with other pathogens (IE: 41 covers most of the spirochete class: Borellia, Leptospirosis, Syphilis, etc). It depends on current & historical symptoms and markers like C3a/TGF-b/MMP-9/CD57,8 and would probably try other tests for markers, possibly another Lyme specific test at a different, but specialized lab like Galaxy Diagnostics (well known for Bart), Fry labs or another in NY whose name escapes me.

[hcknwscommenter]

Where do you live where you have a single doctor with 50 PCR+ COVID patients who have been tested for antibodies? Bergamo?

[gonational]

Do you have any thoughts on the usage of consumption of Borax to treat Lyme disease (asking because your username)?

[lymeeducator]

Never used it and wouldn't use it. I do not condone long term antibiotics either.