[chipotle_coyote]

With all respect, I think "dishonest" is a mean-spirited choice of words.

Sure, we have examples of computers that allow users to install their own programs, but we also have examples of computers that by and large do not: video game consoles. It's been clear from very early on that Apple thinks of iOS devices as "application consoles."

Furthermore, while a phone clearly isn't a dishwasher, what about a smart TV? The LG OLED that I have sitting in the living room proudly proclaims it runs WebOS when I turn it on, but as far as I know, there's no way for me to put my own software onto it even though it would surely be capable of running it. I'm sure there are people who are upset about that at least in principle, but in practice most of us don't really care too much about that. The comment sections of reviews of LG TVs are not filled up with angry cries about how LG refuses to respect its customers.

There are arguments about whether Apple should treat iOS devices as equivalent to consoles. For instance, I don't think it's intrinsically bad to have started that way but as time goes on there are purely practical arguments against continuing it -- and it seems actively detrimental to where Apple wants to take the iPad. But I don't think "this shows Apple doesn't respect its customers" is a particularly useful takeaway here; the vast majority of customers really aren't jonesing to sideload apps.

Last but not least, while this whole "the platform must be open" is a favorite hobby horse of HN -- and, to repeat, I am in favor of letting people sideload iOS apps! -- it's slightly orthogonal to the beef Hey has with Apple here. Yes, if Hey could sideload their app that would get around the problem, but the real question is whether Apple is being fair by saying that Hey can't be in the store unless they allow their subscription to be bought with an in-app purchase. This is demonstrably not a standard they've applied universally, and it's dubious whether it's a standard they should have at all.

[Artlav]

> video game consoles

Huh? I used to make DIY games as late as early 00s, for GBA, Sega Dreamcast and PS1.

Is that no longer possible with modern consoles?

[rnotaro]

For Microsoft you can't do it with the Xbox 360.

All Xbox One can acts as a DevKit but you will need to pay a 20USD ont-time fee to get a developper account that will allow you to use their SDK and various tools.

[abiogenesis]

You are repeating the same mistake the OP calls as being "dishonest" (although I agree that this is a bit overreacting). Why do you keep comparing phones with other appliances such as dishwashers, video game consoles, or smart TVs?

As the grandparent comment clearly says: We have examples of modern phones [...] that allow users to install their own programs.

[chipotle_coyote]

I explained why I was making the comparison in the post: Apple clearly (at least to me) conceived of iOS devices as application consoles, analogous to game consoles. If you don't think they should have conceived of them that way -- and I'm pretty sure I also addressed that -- that's fine, but I genuinely don't think my comparison of iOS devices to game consoles is dishonest. I think it's literally the way Apple intended them to operate. You may think that they shouldn't intend them to operate that way, and I might agree, but that's really a different argument.

[matwood]

> Why do you keep comparing phones with other appliances such as dishwashers, video game consoles, or smart TVs?

For many (most?) people, their phone is just another appliance.

[abiogenesis]

The point is, you should compare phones to other brands of phones. It does not make sense to compare an appliance to just another appliance.

Would you be happy if your coffee machine boiled the water but did not actually make coffee, because that's what electric kettles do? It's just another appliance; but it's not an electric kettle, it's supposed to make coffee.