[moksly]

The thing about working on yourself is that it’s actually work. Reading an article, or a book on behaviour, self-improvement and what else doesn’t actually change you any more than reading Harry Potter does.

It’s the years of applying Zen Buddhism, scheduling your chores or staring at the mirror telling yourself you’re a great person that changes you.

I know because I recently recorded from a major depression and anxiety, and everything that I’ve done that has actually helped, like lying to myself in the mirror, or convincing myself no-one on the train was actually judging me, took 6+ months to have a real lasting effect.

It’s the same with distractions. Just look at your screen time spent on your smartphone today. It’s probably a couple of hours by the time you go to bed. Like it is for the rest of us. Most of that time is frankly wasted, you know it. I know it. But reading a self-improvement article about how cutting down screen time is healthy for us isn’t actually going to change our behaviour one bit. Maybe for a day or two, but not next week and certainly not next month.

[mchan889]

"The thing about working on yourself is that it’s actually work. Reading an article, or a book on behaviour, self-improvement and what else doesn’t actually change you any more than reading Harry Potter does."

This is well put, and I think part of the reason so much self-improvement material is drivel. Generally, I've noticed that some of the most pathological people are the most into 'self-improvement' as an idea. That being said, their brand of 'self-improvement' generally does not extend beyond reading and quoting books by various gurus.

On the flip-side, those I've met who are actually highly motivated and disciplined, have never picked up one of those guru books.

Reading up on something is one thing, and in many cases, it's an important first step. There's no way to start using a new language without reading something. That being said, simply reading is not enough. On top of that, what you read has to be actionable. The self-improvement platitudes are not actionable. Reading a book on Python does not turn you into a python developer. Why should reading a guru book turn you into one?

[afarrell]

> I've noticed that some of the most pathological people are the most into 'self-improvement' as an idea.

I've noticed that some of the people who spend the most time paying attention to their blood sugar are diabetic.

[mchan889]

My point is more that they are checking their blood sugar levels without doing anything about it.

[afarrell]

hard things are hard.

[xouse]

The way I look at it, information is a force multiplier on action. If there's no action then 50 times zero is still zero.

[mlthoughts2018]

But then if there’s no information, zero times 50 is still zero.

[the_af]

I'm not sure I agree, because the situation is in my opinion not symmetrical.

Work without reading about it: might work, and often does. Reading about it without doing the work: way less useful.

[mlthoughts2018]

My view is the opposite, basically the adage “measure twice, cut once.”

Work without research often is actively harmful in addition to failing and wasting time & resources. Research at least improves knowledge while not wasting other resources besides time.

[the_af]

In science, engineering and coding, I agree!

However, I felt the context of this conversation was self-improvement though. In this particular context, it's easier to get things done without reading any motivational books/articles (in fact, most people get things done without reading about how to self motivate), and the contrary -- reading self-improvement articles -- doesn't mean anything if you don't do the actual work.

Let me quote the initial post of this subthread, which is the sentiment I agree with:

> "The thing about working on yourself is that it’s actually work. Reading an article, or a book on behaviour, self-improvement and what else doesn’t actually change you any more than reading Harry Potter does."

[mlthoughts2018]

I think it’s true no matter the domain. You should take a scientific approach to self improvement.

[disgruntledphd2]

Spend a week in the lab to save a day in the library?

[the_af]

I should have been clearer: I was talking about motivational or self-improvement sort of books and articles, as is the topic of TFA.

I wouldn't try it with lab work, though pioneering work sometimes was that way ;)

[disgruntledphd2]

I was mostly being facetious, thanks for taking it so well :)

[maxwebdev]

Worked for Edison