[Miraste]

I must use scrolling windows differently than you, because I haven't clicked and dragged a scroll bar probably for years. The only thing I need a scroll indicator for is to see how far I am down the page, which I only do when I'm actively scrolling. MacOS disappearing scrollbars (which do not waste space when inactive, but pop in over content when you scroll) are my ideal implementation.

[fomine3]

I want to know current position and I still sometimes grab scrollbar and drag because it sometimes comfortable than scrolling a wheel.

[elwes5]

My point is that it is terribly inconsistent. There are basically 4 ways now. You can see the scroll bar. The scroll bar is borderline invisible color wise to the background. Fade in out, some are over the text (which is annoying if you happen to be reading that bit and activate it). Fade in out space kept but the control is invisible. The fade in out has a second issue. Can I scroll? It suffers from the 'bellow the fold' problem of usability. As in there was more stuff on the page but I missed it. All because a paragraph break worked out just right.

[abrowne]

I often like to know how long a page is when I'm not scrolling too.