[nupark]

Shared memory makes perfect sense for a webapp, too. I question the whole stateless mantra -- if state is reconstructable on other nodes, then what is wrong with state that improves performance -- such as caching.

Everything from database connections to user data can be cached locally, shared across connections, and does not require multiple processes each with their own large heap.

I'd like to elaborate on more examples (such as comet and efficient handling of a large number of blocked connections while allowing unblocked connections to proceed concurrently while maintaining cached local state) ... But I'm on an iPad and this keyboard is driving me crazy.

[nl]

Yep, caching is great.

But I think caching is something best done in system/platform code, not in your application.

Like you say, there are plenty of examples where sharing state makes sense. But I still believe that state in application code is something that be avoided, and that most of the time it's best to rely on platforms that do state management for you.

For example, session support in web platforms is a great example of something that supplies (simulated) state, and is supplied by the platform.

[nupark]

The most efficient way for a platform to cache many types of state is in the process itself, local to where that state is required. Database connection pooling, for example, is more efficient implemented within a single multithreaded process, where the entirety of the pool is immediately available to all concurrent connections, and cache locality exists between the data looked up (and cached) and the connections using that data.

I have a hard time with the notion that web apps should be "stateless." It seems to be an argument borne out of limitations of the frameworks/platforms being used, and repudiated by the fact that such platforms do share state, but are forced to use less efficient external mechanisms (such as network requests to memcached, the local database, etc), rather than leveraging the advantages of data locality as available in a non-multiprocess system.

We've often taken advantage of sticky sessions to allow individual servers to maintain and share state across requests while ensuring that the state could be reconstructed by another server should it become necessary. It is simply more efficient to do so, and efficiency in implementation directly translates to dollars spent on operational costs, as well as effects on human observable response times.

[ldh]

There are plenty of examples of real world, non-trivial situations in which a web app will need to employ caching. For example, to fulfill a user request data needs to be fetched from an expensive web service call, but one which is likely to be shared across user requests. How does an application avoid managing this cache itself?

[nl]

Incidentally, I think it's ironic that I'm "defending" a imperative language by using lack-of-state as a feature when it is being compared to a functional language.

But I think it's an illuminating discussion anyway.