[thr0waw4y5555]

...and where might the money for that fair compensation of the creative act come from when consumers of the product expect it for free? This is the part that never gets resolved in discussions - someone, somewhere has to cough up money to pay for stuff that people now believe should be consumed for free. Where is this mythical money tree that generates money without consumers putting any in?

Same thing occurs in the OSS world. Unless a project is lucky to fall under the umbrella of a big company that sees value in investing in contributing to OSS, there is no $ to pay creators. Yet, again, people expect free software and assume someone, somewhere, has a magical money tree from which they can fairly compensate producers.

To be honest, I solved it my way: took all of my articles offline, stopped a second book project, and stopped contributing to OSS. I assume some optimistic younger creator will fill the void, until one day they too wake up and say “shit - this isn’t fair”, and will also move on. The changed world you speak of certainly is here - it seems to basically prey upon the endless pipeline of those who have yet to figure out that they deserve to be compensated for their efforts, and just sucks them dry and burns them out until they realize they’re being exploited.

[matheusmoreira]

They expect it for free after it was created. The only possible solution is to charge them money before creating it. Perhaps crowdfunding and patronage will be the answer. If not, I guess we'll just have to live with less creators in general. That is fine.

[geofft]

> If not, I guess we'll just have to live with less creators in general. That is fine.

I was wondering if someone was going to make this argument.

1. Why is it fine?

2. How is "Actually, it's okay if there are fewer books in the world" a defense of "Internet Archive was in the right to give people access to books, because it's very important that people have access to books"?

If the world doesn't actually need people to write books unless they can afford to do so for free (or via crowdfunding/patronage), why did Internet Archive need to do anything at all, besides say "Authors, please make your books available for free if you can"? What was so important about the rest of the books?

And why abolish copyright? Is the world improved if we go from a small number of books available for free and several available under copyright to only a small number of books available for free?

[matheusmoreira]

My original comments were not directly related to the Internet Archive situation. I replied to an author who blamed consumers for the lack of profits when in reality it is the business model itself that is failing.

> Why is it fine?

> And why abolish copyright?

Because these days a world without copyright is how things are in practice. Copyright infringement is trivial. People do it even unintentionally. Might as well stop pretending and just accept the consequences. We just can't go back to how things were before computers and the internet. If the result is less creation overall, then we must accept that.

Enforcing copyright in the 21st century requires sacrificing computing freedom as we know it today. Computers would only execute approved "lawful" software. Subversive programs which do things like play movies without consulting the rights holders first would be banned. That would surely mean the end of playful hacking and the free and open source software community. I don't think anyone here wants that outcome. I certainly don't. So I defend the end of copyright.

I've been warned before about ideological discussion on HN so I will refrain from elaborating further. I apologize.

[s1artibartfast]

I think I would take books and copyright over a free internet, and a lot of other people would too.

>Enforcing copyright in the 21st century requires sacrificing computing freedom as we know it today. Computers would only execute approved "lawful" software.

License keys are a simple and effective solution that works 99% of the time

>Subversive programs which do things like play movies without consulting the rights holders first would be banned. That would surely mean the end of playful hacking and the free and open source software community.

How does the second part follow the first? 100% freedom in all forms is not a pre-requisite for opensource software. There are plenty of things you can't and shouldn't be able to do. I think this is a false dichotomy.

[matheusmoreira]

> License keys are a simple and effective solution that works 99% of the time

It's not just DRM. There are plenty of software that can be used for good and bad and in many cases the line is blurry. Their use would be prevented just because someone might misuse them.

File sharing, software development tools, debuggers, reverse engineering tools, network analysis tools, penetration testing software... All of these and more are likely to be banned from the computers of mere consumers. Computers would become mere media consumption machines just like modern locked down video game consoles.

> How does the second part follow the first?

Respect for the user is a basic principle of free and open source software. This means the software is supposed to do what the user wants, not what society wants. The only way to perfectly align the two is to stop unauthorized software from running on the user's machine. Society must the computer away from the user. It's not the user's machine anymore, society is just letting them use it and only on society's terms.

Do you want a world where only licensed programmers can develop software? A world where only software developed by these people will ever run?

> 100% freedom in all forms is not a pre-requisite for opensource software.

It is a prerequisite for software freedom. What good is open source software if you can't run it on your machine?

[s1artibartfast]

It seems like you are taking everything to the extreme. We have legal copyright protections now and all of the tools you mentioned still exist. Copyright holders are going after major distributors, and a few pirates to make examples of them.

>Do you want a world where only licensed programmers can develop software? A world where only software developed by these people will ever run?

While I think conclusion is absurd, I would prefer it to one where content creators have no rights.