[deogeo]

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege?

What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority?

Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

[Ghjklov]

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege?

That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and for that, they receive undeserved discrimination and disrespect.

[ThrowawayR2]

> "That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing."

As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, including a significant language barrier and, yes, racism in their newly adopted homelands. Yet, by and large, they have built successful lives.

I'd describe the statement as incredibly accurate and unequivocally true.

[Ghjklov]

I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in America.

[ThrowawayR2]

Ah, sorry. I did indeed misread your comment.

[harpratap]

Not sure about other Asians, but most South Asians that immigrated to US already had degrees and were upper-middle class (having the money to buy international plane tickets automatically qualifies you to be upper-middle class). Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough".

[chii]

> Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough".

so to get back to the grandparent post's question - why don't black people have this same mentality? What is it that's specific that's causing the disparity between asians and blacks?

[harpratap]

1. Poverty, especially generational poverty, is extremely difficult to get out of. Studying in a university means you won't be able to help your family financially for 5-8 years. Which can be really difficult for many.

2. No role model. Let's say you can somehow manage those hardships. But how do you know all this effort and education loans will be worth it? There are not many role models for African Americans in STEM so they are afraid to dream big. For Indians it's very easy, our culture (especially the Brahmin upper-middle class culture) has always had plenty of role models.

3. They never really paid the true price of getting out of poverty. Education in India and China is highly state sponsored, so all the quality education you got there was mostly tax paid, which enabled them to immigrate to US in the first place. If you give African Americans the same quality education fully sponsored by the state things will change for them too.

[chii]

So these are true for the current generation of immigrants.

What about the generation of asians [0] that were from the beginning of the 19th century? They broke out of poverty, despite all the same disadvantages.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#:....

[Nasrudith]

One obvious result is generational poverty and what hints at 'learned helplessness' of sorts and loss of hope. It isn't limited to just the racial context. London schools found that their low end of the bell curve were native working class children. Worse than even refugees from a non-privileged background in even the 'relative to origin' sense.

The phenomenon is larger than race, although it may be involved in any given instance or manifestation. It is a shared cliche for successful professionals hailing from both inner city to suburbs and dying small town Midwest that they never want to return to. That 'they're ones of the ones who made it out of that (shit/hell)hole', along with a disgust at its inhabitants or melancholy resignation that they are stuck in dysfunction, along with optional lingering resentment over mistreatment by the local crab-bucket.

I'm not sure anyone has an answer for how to solve those issues. A hypothetical solution probably wouldn't be very popular even if it isn't anything morally or ethically uncomfortable just from how 'counter-intutive' it would have to be.

[rootusrootus]

> Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege?

Reverse racism, as it were?

> What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority?

Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;).

> Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

On the contrary, there seems to be a bazillion sides to this whole discussion.

[deogeo]

> Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;)

Not at all - behold, an entire article complaining about too many whites on Harvard [1], despite being the most under-represented group [2].

[1] https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirm...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21130080