[open-source-ux]

"Windows 98 was famously controversial, at least in nerd circles, for the integration of Internet Explorer into Explorer itself"

How interesting to see attitudes change. Today, using a web browser and HTML/CSS/JavasScript to write your app (whether as a SaaS app or a desktop app using Electron) is one of the most popular options for creating apps.

In fact, Microsoft explored this space many years ago too. Remember Microsoft Money 2000? A desktop app with an interface akin closer to a web page than a traditional desktop GUI. Microsoft called it Inductive User Interface:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/appuistart/in...

[nfoz]

> How interesting to see attitudes change. Today, using a web browser and HTML/CSS/JavasScript to write your app (whether as a SaaS or a desktop app using Electron) is one of the most popular options for creating apps.

I'm not sure that's a change. The IE integration was what the MS developers wanted, against the wishes of nerd-users. Electron apps today are very popular for developers, and nerd-users constantly complain about it.

[toyg]

This * 1000.

Users are not clamouring for HTML apps (and really never have - most users get annoyed by inconsistent and mutating interfaces), it's just a way for developers to save money and time. End of.

[forgotpwd16]

They are clamoring for their slowness though; they just don't know that the reason for being slow and heavy is that they're a web browser running a web page.

[grandchild]

And then there was Active Desktop. I remember setting an HTML file as desktop wallpaper, so I could have an animated wallpaper. :)

(Why I wanted my wallpaper to visually distract me at every step is beyond me today, but I had fun.)

[theandrewbailey]

All I remember about Active Desktop is how it would make everything slower. I would convert JPG images to BMP before setting them as desktop wallpaper, because JPG would require Active Desktop turned on (along with its slowness), BMP didn't.

[forgotpwd16]

I was using it to read RSS, show some network info such as external IP and have a text field which could be used as a notepad. It was superseded by the arguably better designed, but more resource intensive, gadget system.

[efreak]

Which was then removed for...reasons. Of course. Why would you want to have little bits of software that could run on your desktop? You know, like sticky notes, a larger clock, weather that doesn't require opening more software/website...

[boomlinde]

> is one of the most popular options for creating apps.

...and still one of the less popular options for using an app

[badsectoracula]

Weeeeelll... Windows 98 Explorer wasn't really an HTML/CSS/JavaScript application, AFAIK the HTML/JS side mainly contained an ActiveX control that exposed the same shell control that was used in the Win95 explorer and file dialog.

[WorldMaker]

IE even supported HTA ("Hyper-Text Application") a file format that absolutely was a direct precursor to both Electron and modern day PWAs.

[efreak]

HTA is still supported. So is WSH using either vbscript or jscript (unfortunately, powershell has replaced WSH for new functionally, rather than supporting both. Afaik there's no way to manage hyper-v or other newer features from WSH)

[WorldMaker]

Still supported? In zombie mode, at best.

WSH is considered a liability by so many admins these days and all the top search hits are on disabling it. I cannot imagine preferring WSH to PowerShell today; everything about PowerShell is a much better experience (including the simple fact that its security model is better and it is nothing near as much of a 0-day worm/virus vector.)

HTA only works with the classic IE Trident engine which is woefully out of date with web platform technologies in 2020. Anyone still working with HTA that hasn't been allowed to migrate to Electron (or PWA) has my sympathies. I do not envy whatever terrible political decisions have led to that.

[efreak]

HTA works perfectly fine as a launcher for legacy software. I wouldn't touch it for more complicated functionality, but a while back, I wrote an HTA splash screen/launcher for some old software that had been updated. At the time, the alternative was to either place the software on the startup menu, or to put desktop shortcuts (this software is intended to be used on a dedicated computer; it's not intended to be online or used otherwise). The HTA runs at login, displays the software name, the company's name and address, and allows opening a couple software packages and help documents with alt text. To me, this is a perfectly acceptable use of HTA, and at the same time, one of the worst possible uses I can imagine for Electron. HTA simplifies maintenance by a non-developer (edit paths and names in the source file depending on the to-be-installed software)

For more complicated automation and interaction, powershell is absolutely more powerful and useful than WSH. However, powershell takes at least 5 seconds to load (usually longer), the window can't be hidden, and it generally works in a different manner. I want to run software in the background. The software does not support it. I do not want to use scheduled tasks, I want to run it on demand (on boot, and from the desktop). I don't want my grandmother calling me up because a black window flashed on her screen, scrolled a bunch of text, then disappeared. I don't want Quassel Core's window bugging me when I'm using my desktop on the occasions I decide to run it. I've got a vbscript that looks for the currently enabled screensaver and launches it, so if it's been changed to a photo album or marquee, the appropriate one starts (the alternative being to make shortcuts to individual scr files).

Windows has no other built-in way to run some simple logic without running a visible command prompt that might confuse, annoy. To me, vbscript allows me to put a simple conditional in front of a shortcut, without perceptively taking longer to run said software and without requiring it to be visible. HTA allows a simple launcher/task chooser. Neither uses much resources.