[redwall_hp]

Universities do not exist so businesses can outsource job training. Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. It's about teaching different ways of thinking, and performing research.

Vocational schools exist if you want to be spoonfed how to do something cut-and-dry.

[heromal]

>Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end.

Sorry my overly idealistic friend, but as long as every job posting "prefers" (i.e. requires) a BS CS, it's fine to see the pursuit of that BS as a means to an end.

[igorkraw]

Sure, but then don't put your entitlement on the university. The university offers you an academic degree, if you want to use that to get a job, play by their rules, or don't go. Free market and all that noise

[gspr]

Why? It sounds like a symbiotic relationship still.

Academia trains people for academia, which is an end in itself. Industry happens to like the skillset that people with that training have. This motivates people who do not wish for an academic career to undergo academic training.

Win-win. It doesn't mean that said academic training has to adapt to the whims of industry, or turn into trade school.

Is there maybe room for a less academic higher education system next to the more academic one? Sure. But getting industry to accept that (as in e.g. Germany or Switzerland) is not academia's concern.

[eesmith]

Academia don't only train people for academia for the simple reason that there's clearly not enough academic jobs for all of the students who come through.

And the teachers and professors know that.

Here's one CS department which explicitly states how they can help students improve their career changes in the professional world, quoting https://cse.unl.edu/focus-areas :

> The Department of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln introduces Focus Areas for its Computer Science and Computer Engineering majors. The goal of the Department is to equip our graduates with advanced skills focused in specific areas to better position them for successful careers. In today’s professional world, computing and computational problem solving skills are ubiquitously in demand in a host of advanced technology and scientific applications.

And they are far from unique. Here's an English department, quoting https://www.saddleback.edu/la/english-department :

> Of course, the first thing people imagine when they think of getting an English degree is teaching high school. Teaching is certainly a noble profession, but there are many career paths one can pursue with an English degree outside of teaching due to the excellent training provided in this field.

Emphasis mine in both quotes.

[eesmith]

"Pre-med" is explicitly outsourced job training. It's in the name.

My university had a College of Nursing - again, job training for nurses.

Oh, and a College of Education which includes training teachers.

Don't be a snob. A 4-year college is only one of many good ways to get an education and an explicit career-path isn't just a "cut-and-dry" education.