[CivBase]

I am very happy that plant-based meat substitutes have come so far and are able to provide competition to the meat industry. Many parts of the meat industry have cited high demand as justification for unethical practices and this new competition should help do away with that.

However, I think the "meat is bad" sentiment bandied about by this article and Beyond Meat is painfully reductive. It's great for their marketing... for now, at least... but it is also a very divisive statement that will probably end up creating as much opposition as support.

Can't we just let both options exist? Margarine doesn't need a "butter is bad" campaign to stay relevant.

[shlant]

I can empathize with that perspective. I personally find the "guilt and shame" tactic less effective and more divisive which is why I tend to avoid going that route. However, there also is truth to the statement "meat is bad" if "bad" means "has negative consequences" and I think those negatives definitely need to be talked about, but I do think it is hard to strike a good balance between effectively and honestly stating the position while also not turning more people off in the long term vs. how many are convinced.

[theabsurdman]

If we can eat foods that don't cause the death and suffering of other creatures, then that is objectively better than eating foods that DO cause the death and suffering of others. Death and suffering are bad, although meat eaters will tie themselves in knots to try and pretend it isn't.

[CivBase]

The meat industry does not inherently cause suffering, but the death part is certainly unavoidable. It's not a question of whether or not death is "bad". It is a question of whether or not death is "worth it".

In my experience, most people put a relatively high value on life (especially human), but not an infinite one. Most societies agree that human life must be highly valued; however, I think you will find that many people do not value the lives of livestock so highly. For many, even human life can be traded for something of great enough value. Ultimately, the value of a life is a matter of opinion.

I'm not trying to challenge your opinion here. I just want to remind you that not everyone shares that opinion, and you'll have to convince them before you can use it as justification for declaring "meat is bad".

[theabsurdman]

you have proven my point

[CivBase]

Did I say anything in particular that you disagree with?

[bagacrap]

Margarine only gained popularity because of the sentiment that butter was bad! And margarine is barely relevant any more, since it's widely understood that trans fats are bad.

[majewsky]

I'm in Germany, and I currently struggle to come up with anyone who doesn't use margarine. I haven't heard the transfat angle mentioned yet in relation to margarine, so I had a quick look. Apparently margarine in the EU contains about 1-2% of transfats, which is within the limit that the EU will enforce starting next year (2% transfat per fat).

[dig6x]

Think this is contingent on what “bad” means, how extensive are the negative externalities of something like meat farming versus the creation of butter or margarine. In that sense, they’re not comparable examples.