[pmiller2]

I’d like to push back a bit on “work for a startup in your 20s.”

Sure, if you want to work at a startup, I would say early career is the best time to do so. Best case scenario, you learn a lot, your company has a successful exit, and you make some decent cash.

The other side of the coin is that for every well run startup where you can learn a lot, there are a bunch that are terrible, where you won’t learn as much, your stock options won’t ever be worth anything, you’ll be overworked, and you’ll overall end up behind where you would have been starting at a more established company.

My experience has been mostly the latter, so I’m a little biased here, but it seems like the default HN bias leans the other way, so I’m trying to counterbalance that. Yes, I did learn from my couple of startup tours, but I’m not sure if I became a better engineer as a result of working at those places. IMO, my time at larger, public companies has been more valuable to me in career terms.

[bradlys]

It's important to highlight the type of things you'll learn. I don't know if I ever became a better software engineer in a technical sense through working at startups that have any kind of struggle. Startups that are on a rocket ship might have time for building their employees or the money to hire employees who know how to write code well without supervision - but most don't.

The other aspect here is a lot of people have a different idea on what joining a startup is. I've heard of people saying, "Oh, I'm joining a startup!" And then it's Uber just before they IPO. Maybe technically Uber was a startup at that point but I've been at a seed stage company - they're not even remotely comparable experiences. I worry people who have only worked at startups with 10+ engineers, super engineering driven culture, and lots of funding are giving the advice of, "work for a startup! It's great!"

Most of the time - it isn't great. It's terrible and not being a founder is the #1 reason I never want to join a startup again. All the risk - none of the reward and none of the power. Fucking sucks.

[pmiller2]

Totally agreed. I've been at 3 startups. One was a 12 year old "startup" that was just a privately held business with big dreams and no follow through. The second was a later stage (series C or D, I believe) company where I did learn some things, but, not enough to make up for the below market comp and worthless options. The third was a series B startup that was much the same.

For an employee, whether they're looking to learn or earn, I think "go work at a startup" as a blanket piece of advice is a bad idea, unless they know how to spot the red flags a bad startup throws up. The earlier stage the company is, the more potential it has for both learning and earning. But, earlier stage bad companies haven't been weeded out as thoroughly as later stage companies. This is just survivorship bias, although, in this case, it works for you rather than against you.

[superimposition]

100% Agree. My first startup job, I learned a ton but the second one was pointless. Target strartups with superstars - those who have a track record of winning. It makes a difference.

[david38]

You can always quit. I’ve spent time at startups and some have quite good, one fantastic.

The benefit is that in a small startup you get so much more exposure and are not siloed away.

[pmiller2]

That’s easy to say when you’re a bit established and sitting on some savings. It’s not so easy for someone starting out from college, or someone who, for whatever reason, doesn’t have the savings to do so.

Counterpoint to “more exposure and not siloed away”: this can easily lead to overwork, either self or externally imposed.