[ken]

What point are you trying to make? Systemic racism is way bigger than just police killings.

Do you want to ignore the (non-lethal) evils of prejudice, and just play a numbers game with fatalities? From some back-of-the-envelope math, the average POC in America will still lose more years of their life from simply living in a racist society than from COVID-19.

Life isn't a pissing contest of "my problem is bigger than your problem".

[kleer001]

> Life isn't a pissing contest of "my problem is bigger than your problem".

> Systemic racism is way bigger than just police killings.

?

[fwip]

The first means "it doesn't make sense to compare these."

The second means "Even though you're trying to compare these problems, you've massively underrepresented the impact of systemic racism by simplifying it to the number of police killings."

[scythe]

>Systemic racism is way bigger than just police killings.

A single protest movement isn't going to end systemic racism, no matter how large it becomes. Even revolutions don't end conservatism -- just ask Leon Trotsky.

However, the coronavirus epidemic is here today and it may well be gone in a year. This may be the worst possible time for a protest movement since the Spanish Flu.

[MickerNews]

Yes but you can't plan these things. So here we are...

[anewdirection]

Except you absolutely can. The black civil rights protests were planned months in advance, and almost always when schools where out.

[jpxw]

Can I see these calculations please?

[ken]

Black people in America have a measurably lower life expectancy than white people [1]. For people born in 2015, it's down to about 5%, but as recently as 1970, it was over 10%. That's a lot of years of life being cut short.

(There are well-known social causes for this which are direct consequences of racism, like access to quality health care, housing, education, credit, etc.)

COVID-19 deaths aren't taking nearly that many years. According to [2] (about 1.5 weeks old), 1 in 1850 (or around 0.05% of) black Americans have died from COVID-19. Even if this continues for the rest of the year, it still can't hold a candle to plain old racism.

[1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2017/015.pdf [2]: https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race

[rabuse]

This doesn't factor in diet and lifestyle choices, which have a very dramatic effect on life expectancy.

[wendyshu]

This is a causal claim but you've only adduced correlations.

[MickerNews]

You can never prove causality.

[Matumio]

All general statements are false.

Joking aside, you can sometimes prove causality. It's just not as easy as proving a correlation. The most broadly accepted method would be a RCT (randomized controlled trial), though it is often unethical or unfeasible.

You can also build on causal assumption that everyone agrees on. (Like: A person's gender cannot be caused by a government policy. A person winning the lottery is not caused by anything other than playing the lottery.) From such knowledge you can build a causal graph, and (in some cases) draw new causal conclusions from statistical data.

Long story short: you cannot just dismiss a correlation as being useless for any proof of causality.

[therealdrag0]

I sympathize with a lot of these problems, but I wonder if the police issue getting all the attention is going to prevent these other issues from getting serious attention. :|

[thisiszilff]

Their letter has a paragraph addressing some of their concerns:

> White supremacy is a lethal public health issue that predates and contributes to COVID-19. Black people are twice as likely to be killed by police compared to white people, but the effects of racism are far more pervasive. Black people suffer from dramatic health disparities in life expectancy, maternal and infant mortality, chronic medical conditions, and outcomes from acute illnesses like myocardial infarction and sepsis. Biological determinants are insufficient to explain these disparities. They result from long-standing systems of oppression and bias which have subjected people of color to discrimination in the healthcare setting, decreased access to medical care and healthy food, unsafe working conditions, mass incarceration, exposure to pollution and noise, and the toxic effects of stress. Black people are also more likely to develop COVID-19. Black people with COVID-19 are diagnosed later in the disease course and have a higher rate of hospitalization, mechanical ventilation, and death. COVID-19 among Black patients is yet another lethal manifestation of white supremacy. In addressing demonstrations against white supremacy, our first statement must be one of unwavering support for those who would dismantle, uproot, or reform racist institutions.

Edit: these aren't the calculations you asked for, but should give you an indication of what they are thinking about.

[sfj]

I realize you are just quoting the text, but this does not describe "black people". It describes poor people.

[thisiszilff]

Yes, unfortunately black people are disproportionately poor, so they bear the brunt of issues associated with a lack of money in America. In the present day, I suspect most things people call systemic racism is rooted in and perpetuated by how disproportionately poor blacks in America are.

[closeparen]

It's really hard not to read this as "my mass killing is okay because I have a good reason." I assume that's not what you mean. Can you help clarify the differences between deaths downstream of these mass gatherings and deaths downstream of more conventional violence?