[Sukera]

I've been using julia for about three years now and from my interactions with devs and the issues on github, caching more code has only been considered in the past year because before then, the priorities were in getting the language stable, to 1.0, and on other lower-hanging performance fruit. "Just cache more" turns out to be a harder problem than it seems at first sight, if by the very nature of the language loading a package can invalidate your caches. It has to be done with much caution, in order to reduce those invalidations as much as possible, which is why it takes time to figure it out.

[cbkeller]

Yeah, Julia has had some form of precompilation/caching for ages now, but sorting out all invalidations appears to be highly nontrivial [1] and devs have had more fundamental priorities pre-1.0. There have been some substantial improvements to latency in the meanwhile nonetheless, and PackageCompiler.jl is a viable option as well.

[1] https://github.com/JuliaLang/www.julialang.org/pull/794

[BubRoss]

Just saying caching is difficult doesn't gel with my experience of what seems like low hanging fruit. I realize a lot of Julia ends up being templates, but when just one line of importing the same plotting package always takes 30 seconds or so, I get suspicious of the idea that all the usability warts are super difficult to solve.

This has always been a huge complaint for Julia and it seems like one of those things that happens to new languages. People are excited, there are a few big rough edges that drive people away, they get ignored or underprioritized for WAY too long, and a giant window of opportunity is missed. I think of D with weeding out garbage collection, go with generics, D with tools and infrastructure, Zig with its refusal to parse carriage returns or tabs, Rust with compilation times, everyone with a lack of an easy road to a GUI, Jai not being released at all...

I think instead of getting lots of areas to a decent stage, languages end up trying to be the best in a single area and placate their hardcore users, when things like C++ succeed by not having huge blindsides and pitfalls, even if it ends up a little rougher in many areas.

[dnautics]

> when things like C++ succeed by not having huge blindsides and pitfalls

what??

[cbkeller]

Sure, just saying it's not that they haven't tried. If you have some specific ideas for low-hanging fruit that you think the Julia devs have missed though, I'm sure they'd welcome a PR!

edit: also, time-to-first-plot is a lot less than 30 seconds for me these days, even without PackageCompiler. (time-to-second-plot is, as usual, instantaneous)