[aframe]

Don’t want to sully the conversation here, but I want to raise an important point - so @feross, please stick with it.

I gave my daughter (6) my iPad for ten minutes this morning and put her on a site to draw minecraft skins. I took a call and took my eyes off the device (but not daughter) for about five minutes while I paced around the room. When I sat back next to her, she somehow ended up on virus Café and was in a video chat with someone. This scared the absolute hell out of me as I knew nothing about the site, I wondered how on Earth she’d managed to stumble on it so quickly, how she’d been able to allow access to device cameras so easily and, ya know, “Virus Café”.

To get around it, I’ve default denied mic and camera access and had to have a serious conversation about stranger danger.

I accept my own lapse in this, but to mitigate it happening to other kids who don’t have helicopter parents, can you please put some form of test before you ask for camera settings? Some form of multiplication or division, or asking for the year you were born would be a massive boost to safeguarding young kids.

[Accacin]

Well it must have been in your web history, I very much doubt she typed the URL in. You could have been visiting anything and she could have accidentally navigated there.

For me, it's a very odd solution to a problem that we have to answer a question before allowing our webcam to be used. I would never set my webcam and mic to be allowed by default, and if I ever give my laptop or device to anyone to search for something I'll put them in a private browser for their privacy aswell as mine.

Either way, I can probably not even begin to understand the responsibilities of being a parent, but if some safeguard is put into this one site, what about the next site you visit that has a similar idea? You're in the same situation again - and there's no shortage of websites for people to chat to each other via webcam.

[aframe]

To confirm, it’s not allowed by default, it’s set to always ask by default - which was just a case of clicking allow or not.

And it most certainly wasn’t in my history. I’d never heard of it before and it’s my work iPad which she doesn’t know the passcode to.

No, parenting is hard, especially so right now. Every day is a mix of work, and guilt that the kid of a full time working family isn’t getting everything she needs.

Never-the-less, devices are common place now. And it’s not uncommon for children to play on them.

She does have a device that only has age appropriate learning apps on, and parental controls. These apps have the above mentioned checks in place to stop kids getting into the settings.

This site has a very child friendly design; bright buttons, emojis flying around. Isn’t it at least responsible to make sure that young people can’t access it?

[AnyTimeTraveler]

If a child isn't old enough to comprehend and deal with most of the internet, then they should not have access to it or only with someone to teach them.

In my opinion, the web is a tool and should be learned like a powersaw or a drill.

I would just be annoyed if I had to answer 127 * 4 on my phone and would leave the site, because it is a ergonomic hurdle to something that I'm just mildly curious about.

[aframe]

As a parent (there are a lot of them, but I only speak for myself), I'd much rather someone be annoyed and not try something because a trivial question gets in the way, than a child getting put in front of a predator so easily. EDIT: Potentially.

[thih9]

As far as I know browsers and apps with unrestricted internet access aren’t rated for children, in my opinion this shouldn’t change.

[londons_explore]

Parental controls and a list of allowed websites and apps would have solved this.

There is no way you can police every site on the internet, so it's best not to even try. Just pick a few you trust and whitelist those.

[iamnotcorrect]

I am 40, my first access to a computer was when i was about 4 maybe? I wrote my first program (10 print "hello", 20 goto 10) at 6.. IMHO this early introduction massively impacted my ability to understand tech and assimilate information around me.

While i think that monitoring usage of devices is important, the idea of not giving a 6yo an ipad or similar when in all likelihood their familiarity with these concepts will benefit them greatly is a bit naive.

So while i don't know the answer, i 100% agree that the solution is not to leave it all to parent.. I would expect a cashier to question my 15yo buying booze, even if i had said it was okay - this is basically the same thing imho.

or a bit like the high voltage warning signs behind barbed wire and locked gates in electricity sub-stations.. or weak roof signs that only burglars will ever see - ultimately we want to minimise the harm.

[y-c-o-m-b]

Same here - almost 40 - I was exposed to electronics at a very young age and that was an early catalyst into becoming a software developer.

Too often people argue for an all or nothing approach, when there's a good compromise in-between.

Parenting is complicated. There's thousands of books on the subject and probably thousands on the subject of electronic use for kids.

These comments telling the OP they can't change every website so "it's not worth trying" are not productive. There's nothing wrong with requesting this feature from Virus Cafe. Maybe it's something they were planning on doing anyway. You never know and it doesn't hurt to ask. What if the change is implemented and it becomes a web-design standard for other sites to adopt? Every idea starts somewhere and HN is a good platform for it to start in.

[nfoz]

Devices were a lot safer for us as kids when they weren't connected to the aggressive messy warzone that is the modern internet.

[vasco]

Did your machines always have parental controls for you and did you ever read or look at things your parents wouldn't approve on the internet or in real life growing up?

[erfgh]

> I gave my daughter (6) my iPad for ten minutes this morning

There's your problem. Just don't do that. But if you can't avoid it, disconnect the internet before you do it.

[simonebrunozzi]

What a silly answer. He is giving a reasonable, constructive criticism that should be simply be taken seriously.

You might disagree giving an iPad to a little girl. Fine. But the suggestion for the site still stands.

[ovidiuleo]

This reply frustrated me to the core. This isn't a parenting website. The advice you gave is a parenting one, and bad, at that. The story could have just been concocted for the benefit of understanding the urgency of the situation. You should probably read this: https://nibblestew.blogspot.com/2020/04/your-statement-is-10... It'll make you a little wiser. As to why your reply frustrated me? I think the internet is overwhelmed by [...] trying to draw lines where no limit should really be required (please note that I'm referring to your comment, not to the request for any sort of protection on Virus Cafe...). The problem wasn't that he/she gave the ipad/iphone to the daughter, but the lack of security on the site. Better people than us said this is actually illegal, so you see, you're slightly out of line. I wanted to somehow say you're right, but irrelevant. But you aren't even right. Even a 6 yearold should have access to an iphone or an ipad, CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET, as it were. The situation forks: 1 - enable parenting rights on the device ...which would mean that if I just want my kid to experience the iphone for 5 minutes I have to enable a feature that afterwards I need to disable... (this forks again, about 3 ways) 2 - buy one especially for the kid ...I don't even want to start... (this actually forks in volumes and volumes of pros and cons)

So let's just stick to the real problem here: I (and when I say I, I mean a forty smthg yearold) was on the verge of clicking Yes to the question whether I allow Virus-Cafe to use my mic and cam. The pop-up pops up exactly where the pop-up for notifications appears, and as I usually block notifications from websites, I almost clicked No by default. In the very last second did I read the actual text on the pop-up. GDPR is really a thing and, as I mentioned previously, it is illegal to just pop that up. Some information should precede the question. (Forks again, let's not go into it.)

I do apologize both for the length of the reply and for its aggressiveness (if you chose to consider it aggressive).

[aframe]

That’s not the problem though is it. I said I accept my lapse, but such easy access into a world of video sharing should have at least cursory controls for children.

My lapse isn’t in question, it’s the many other children around the world who will be shoved in front of a device and forgotten about, and how this site does nothing to protect them.

We’re in lockdown, myself and my wife work full time and then some. My daughter wanted to paint minecraft skins while I was sat with her. Within two minutes she was on this site somehow and sharing video with someone from the states.

That’s not cricket.

[chris_overseas]

But that's how the internet works. If not this site, then it'll be another, and another, and another... You are just one URL away from violence, porn, racism, drugs, you name it. Are you going to ask all those millions of sites to put age restrictions and barriers up too? Governments have tried and failed. I'd recommend directing your energy in to setting up whitelists and/or other monitoring software and teaching your daughter to become internet savvy, because what you are trying to do is fight a battle that you simply cannot win.

Personally, putting up any sort of age test is just another annoyance and barrier to entry that makes me more likely to give up trying the site and turn my attention elsewhere. Most kids are smart enough to figure out how to bypass this sort of thing quickly anyway - as I did back in the day, getting past the questions to gain access to Leisure Suit Larry!

[thih9]

I understand that you're emotional, but I don't follow the logic.

Why would you like to change a random site? Wouldn't she end up on a different one next time?

As mentioned elsewhere ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23415324 ), it seems easier to configure the iPad so that it's safe to give it to your daughter.

[wondringaloud]

You've accepted your lapse, but you don't seem to accept any further responsibility to stop this from happening in the future. Instead, you're putting this responsibility on countless websites that YOU think are inappropriate for your daughter. The burden is on you. Own it.

[astura]

If you don't want your six year old daughter to access video and audio then don't give her a device with access to video and audio - that's entirely your obligation, nobody else's.

(Disabling undesired features is another option)

[stronglikedan]

For what it's worth, as a developer, I would not want to introduce user friction to my site specifically, just to address a more global problem.

Perhaps you would be better off addressing this concern with browser developers.

[wolco]

Would you give her your gun or knive or porn collection of sword collection?

Would you leave her in front of a tv with access to the porn channel.

Your the weak link here.

[pachico]

I agree. On the other side, some might argue that kids shouldn't be given tablets or phones if hey don't need them. There's a lot of discussion about it and, although not complete consensus, most pediatricians seem to discourage so early access to screens. Btw, I'm a father too.

[pachico]

It seems the demotion show has already started... Anyhow, WHO also discourages it https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/24-04-2019-to-grow-up-h... It's not a ridiculous idea.

[wolco]

Give her a kid friendly phone not your phone with your history and preferences.

[Wowfunhappy]

I really don't think six year olds need their own phone yet...

[y-c-o-m-b]

"Kid friendly phone" usually means an older device that is disconnected from service and only has access to wifi (if even that) and apps designed for kids in their age range. I don't think they were suggesting giving the kid an actual full-service phone.

[aframe]

I agree.

[entwife]

Don't give your young child an Internet-connected device with microphone and camera capability. Just, don't.