Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by luckylion 2212 days ago
> TBH I don't know. How much money is spent determining whether or not someone is eligible for welfare? How much is spent on sourcing vendors and distribution?

Probably a lot in absolute terms, but insignificantly little in relative terms, i.e. if you pay somebody (in cash or in rent or vouchers) $1000, you're not adding $1000 on top. Romney claimed as much in 2012 and the numbers don't support it [1]. Money quote: Combined federal and state administrative costs range from 1 percent to 10 percent of total federal- and state-funded program spending.

That's considerable, but it's not going to fund UBI, especially not if there's an expansion beyond those that currently receive money from the programs.

> If UBI resolves, to pull a number from no-where, 90% of the issues social workers are needed for, now you've got 10x the social workers to do that engagement with your neighbor.

True, but we've tried "increase the number of social workers" in Germany, and it didn't help. After all, you can only achieve so much with offered help. If you want change, you may have to force it. It's similar with drug addicts: you absolutely can get them clean, but only if they want to (and want it enough to stick it out, as it's not a fun process even with help and support) or if you force them. Simply building rehab centers alone isn't going to do it.

I'm not a fan of UBI, I believe it will be a terrible thing medium to long-term and will create a permanently unproductive under-class with zero agency that requires constant adult supervision. I do believe in a Universal Right To Work, though. Guarantee them a job, even if it's not a productive one but merely picking up trash, visiting lonely elders or explaining directions to tourists, and pay them in return. It changes the dynamic and you keep a habit of exchanging work for money (and getting out of bed), and it has basically none of the moral hazards of UBI, does not incentivize not-contributing, does not require closing your borders immediately after introducing the policy etc. I'm sure it's hard to work out as well (e.g. you don't want the state to ruin markets etc), but I believe it's a much better approach, and it's also much easier to sell to those that will have to fund it (which, let's not kid ourselves, are never going to be the 1%, the international corporations or those that inherit large sums of money, but the average worker).

[1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/romneys-charge-that-most-feder...