Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by mbrukman 2206 days ago
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

I've added a clarification separately, please take a look there first: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23365469

> The point is that when a non-Googler contributes code, it’s non-proprietary since the non-Googler is by definition a non-Googler.

I think we are using different definitions of "proprietary". I'm using it to mean "non-open-source" [1], and you're using it to mean "employed by a specific company" (or something else); can you please clarify what you mean or rephrase what you're trying to say?

> What the CLA does not prohibit is proprietary use—- your lengthy answer. The OP makes the point that Google will find a way to use public contributions for Google’s own profit.

That's not the purpose of a CLA; that's the purpose of a project's license. That was the point of my post. Anyone can take a project with an Apache/BSD/MIT license (whether or not the project has a CLA, it's orthogonal), make a proprietary product from it, distribute it, sell it, etc. and they would be just fine doing it, without also sharing any of the source.

To put it another way, a CLA cannot restrict proprietary or commercial use of a patch or contribution, if the underlying project license is Apache/BSD/MIT, because all those licenses already allow commercial use, incorporating software into proprietary / closed-source products, etc. Such a CLA would be incompatible with the project's license.

I've never seen an Apache/BSD/MIT project where the CLA (and only the CLA) prohibits commercial / proprietary / closed-source or any other use cases — if you have an example or two, could you please point them out? I'm very curious to see how this would work in practice, because this seems like a strong contradiction, so I would be interested to see how this plays out in practice.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software

1 comments

I think a nice example that could help clarify the situation is the CLA that Canonical uses; if I remember correctly they reserve to themselves the right to change the license of community contributions.
Looking at the Canonical CLA [1], you're right that it allows Canonical the right to relicense contributions under any other license:

> 2.3 Outbound License

> Based on the grant of rights in Sections 2.1 and 2.2, if We include Your Contribution in a Material, We may license the Contribution under any license, including copyleft, permissive, commercial, or proprietary licenses. [...]

However, please note that my original comment [2] was asking for a CLA which prevents usage in a proprietary setting, while the project is under a permissive license like Apache/BSD/MIT (emphasis added):

> I've never seen an Apache/BSD/MIT project where the CLA (and only the CLA) prohibits commercial / proprietary / closed-source or any other use cases — if you have an example or two, could you please point them out?

[1] https://ubuntu.com/legal/contributors/agreement

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23365535

It was not directly a reply to that case, it was meant to say that even if the license was GPL so that a proprietary fork was forbidden, a CLA could make it so that only the owner of the project is allowed to use your contributions as proprietary.

It was an example of a case where a CLA could have caused what was imputed by the original comment.

That's a fair point, thanks for the clarification.