[dmix]

Calling it "WinGet" was the real punch in the gut.

Does Microsoft select for assholes or something? There's a thousand other package manager names [1] in the wild and they chose that one.

So much for "developers, developers, developers"...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_package_manag...

[michaelt]

> Calling it "WinGet" was the real punch in the gut.

I feel for the guy, but someone who called their package manager "app get" in 2014 when "apt get" has existed for since 1998 is in no position to take umbrage at a competing package manager having a six-letter name ending in get.

[generalk]

I think there's a huge and obvious difference between an open-source dev naming a package manager for a non-Linux platform "AppGet" in reference/homage/whatever to apt-get; and Microsoft, a multi-billion dollar company, dangling a carrot in front of the developer of a program called AppGet then ghosting him, forking his open-source project and calling it WinGet, and not even having the decency to publicly credit his work.

[svick]

I believe they didn't actually fork his code, what they did is build a brand new project that is heavily inspired by AppGet.

Also, they have now corrected the credit: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/winget-install-le...

[6gvONxR4sf7o]

I think the authors umbrage is not about naming it that, but them copying his project after this whole process and then naming it that and still not really crediting him.

[tiagod]

How does AppGet compete with apt-get?

[philliphaydon]

I thought AppGet was a pun on apt-get and thought the name was clever.

I thought it was better named than Chocolatey or Scoop.

Edit: plan > pun. (no idea why I wrote plan, i think I wanted to write play)

[mumblemumble]

Chocolatey is a pun on NuGet, which is presumably inspired by apt-get.

[hoffs]

It's not about competing, it's about naming

[arcticfox]

To me, context matters. 'AppGet' sounds like a friendly hat tip to the legendary apt-get, given that they don't compete.

'WinGet', a direct copy of 'AppGet', is not a friendly reference IMO.

[ThrowawayR2]

And why is "WinGet" not also a reference to apt-get? I've never even heard of AppGet before this morning.

[fluidcruft]

AppGet sounds like "apt-get".

On the other hand "WinGet" sounds like "wing-it" i.e. release any piece of junk and fix later. Maybe. Which TBF does seem to be how Microsoft works anyway.

[meddlepal]

It doesn't, but the name is too similar to apt-get. It's a naming issue.

[SkyBelow]

I would think that their old system of stack ranking would have had that selection impact. It has been gone for a long time but could it have had a lasting impact on company culture by who was being kept and who was promoted into positions that are responsible for the culture today? I don't think such a thought is unreasonable.

[asdf21]

I only know a tiny bit about stack ranking, but I would think just the opposite... wasn't it designed to (at least partially) select for more conscientious employees?

[GoblinSlayer]

>Calling it "WinGet" was the real punch in the gut.

Should they name it "wget"?

[TAForObvReasons]

In all fairness:

- "NuGet" is super-popular in .NET circles (included in Visual Studio by default)

- "apt-get" is the classic tool for Windows Subsystem for Linux

So "WinGet" certainly "makes sense" as a name without being a direct ripoff of AppGet

[sillysaurusx]

I’m not sure you could have illustrated their point more perfectly than this. But please don’t feel like people are amused at your expense — it’s just such a perfect demonstration of exactly what they were saying.

FWIW, I agree with you that WinGet is an entirely logical choice, catchy, and ultimately unrelated to AppGet. Yeah, it may seem like the choice was made intentionally / in spite of AppGet, but anyone who knows a bit about big company dynamics will tell you that the explanation for situations like this is usually mundane, innocent, and often dysfunctional — much like a toddler. A toddler that happens to have a billion dollars and can reshape the world with its decisions, but still similar. “The name is catchy and I like it” is akin to “I see red ice cream and I want it,” and it’s probably nothing deeper than that.

It was rather unfortunate to use apt-get as an example and then say it was for Windows, though. :)

[banger180]

> "apt-get" is the classic tool for Windows Subsystem for Linux

APT is the classic tool for debian-like Linux distributions. FTFY

[teekert]

Get used to it, this is going to be the bulk of the "Linux" users from now on.

Edit: Imo not a bad thing, it's just how it is. A lot of people will learn (of) Linux through WSL. Linux as a runtime.

[knolax]

Considering the fact that there are five times as many Android devices as Windows devices, and the greater ease of use of Termux compared to WSL. I find that highly unlikely. Anecdotally every newbie programmer I've seen try to use WSL has just ended up installing Linux in frustration.

[SifJar]

> greater ease of use of Termux compared to WSL

pretty subjective, I'm guessing most people find terminal-based stuff easier/nicer on a computer with an actual keyboard, rather than a (relatively) small phone screen with a touchscreen keyboard.

I believe Termux is also pretty majorly restricted by Android 10 (can only run binary code included within the application package, so no downloading additional linux packages or compiling things locally, I believe)

[teekert]

Termux is a terminal emulator, WSL is a subsystem. Did you try [0]? And WSL2?

It's pretty compelling, I predict they will pull in a lot of Apple (who use it for the terminal) devs and make a lot of Windows first devs very happy. And there are a lot.

Btw, am I downvoted because my original comment in not constructive or do people not agree with me?

[0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/windows-terminal/9n0dx20hk...

[VibrantClarity]

I doubt it pulls in anybody in the unfinished state its in. WSL does not integrate very well and is miserably slow. My 13yo thinkpad runs circles around WSL running on my workstation. WSL2 is still beta, and given how buggy 1909 still is, I am not installing 2004 on anything I care about. And I recently tried Windows Terminal, but it couldn't even give me an admin prompt without giving every single session elevated privileges, so I gave up after 5 minutes.

[PascLeRasc]

By the way, every terminal application you're used to (Terminal.app on macOS, iTerm, the Windows Terminal, Ubuntu's Terminal application) is a terminal emulator. I've tried WSL1 and 2 and couldn't get past the typing latency, awful font rendering, incredibly slow downloads, apt/dpkg bugs, and not syncing with the actual filesystem like Linux/macOS do. For example, I like to copy my dotfiles to ~/Dropbox/dotfiles. This isn't possible on Windows, and if you force it to do so it will corrupt the files.

[knolax]

Termux is a lot more than just a terminal emulator.

[imhoguy]

Wait! apt-get is not Microsoft's invention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(software)

[dmix]

It still looks really bad. If you're going to copy and kill off [1] an OSS project, when you're a major company who owns the platform, with a long history of this sort of thing, after baiting the developer for information, then copying the name on top of it is just cruel and in poor taste.

Context matters. That's the key point here.

Plus your two examples out of a hundred or so examples doesn't make it common either (or maybe one in a half examples since apt/apt-get/apt-cache are the three Debian programs under APT umbrella).

[1] there was no way this project was going to continue despite their nonsense about "broadening the options in the community", they knew what they were doing

[microtherion]

> If you're going to copy and kill off an OSS project

Many OSS projects (and pretty much all of mine) were started to scratch a particular itch, so if that itch gets scratched by another project, I'm not terribly concerned.

It's more problematic if the competition is a half assed solution that, by virtue of being backed by a larger company, still sucks the oxygen out of the space you're trying to serve.

[deno]

> "apt-get" is the classic tool for Windows Subsystem for Linux

Hello darkness, my old friend…

[foolmeonce]

Yeah I hope the TLD read is that this article has nothing to do with Microsoft embracing Linux and Debian distribution related tools are safe?

I would have preferred irrelevantGet but WinGet is unambiguous enough.

Don't work for free on proprietary systems or single sponsor opensource is a lesson cheaper learned by watching others.

[yoz-y]

> Don't work for free on proprietary systems or single sponsor opensource is a lesson cheaper learned by watching others.

Well in the author's case the tool was just as useful for them than for the others. Nothing wrong with helping the community, regardless of the ecosystem.

[nailer]

Your point is solid ('get' is a common name for packaging systems) but if you're not familiar with Linux, apt-get is from Debian.

[mikorym]

This comment should have a dualised state: downvotes that push it higher and upvotes that push it lower.

[joncrane]

>Does Microsoft select for assholes or something?

Probably, but it's not limited to Microsoft.

Any company where revenues are the highest goal (and all publicly traded companies should be this way; it's an obligation to share holders) will, generally speaking, select for assholes and sociopaths.

How strong that selection is, how pervasive, and how quickly it happens are variables in the equation, but the effect is the same, and it sucks.