[dgellow]

I’m not sure why it’s important for features to be in the base install (so not in a separate package). Having theM packaged separately makes it easier to push updates, and you only install the power tools if you care about them.

That’s quite nice IMHO.

[Grumbledour]

Basic Features in separate packages means, many users will never use them, because they don't know they exist.

Bulk renaming files for example is not something only power users do, it is something only power users can do because it just does not exist and/or is not discoverable for a normal user.

And also as a power user, it is annoying to find a program for every basic thing the system should be able to do.

On the other hand, maybe we should hand it to MS that they so greatly embrace the Unix Philosophy on that point?

[endogui]

I can't be the only user who installs Cygwin just so that I can move files around, calculate hashes of files, and grep with regular expressions. Simple things Windows users don't get out of the box.

[aeronaute]

I want to challenge your last statement that these things aren't available to Windows users out of the box. Are you certain of that?

- Move files: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

- File hashes: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

- Grep: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft...

[chokolad]

> Simple things Windows users don't get out of the box.

Of course they do. It's called Powershell.

[pie_flavor]

By what criteria? PS is installed on all Windows systems and does all of those things.

[dgellow]

> Basic Features in separate packages means, many users will never use them, because they don't know they exist.

If people want/need to do something such as bulk renaming, they can online search for it, as they do for everything else, which will tell them they can install a package from the windows store.

Doesn’t seem that crazy to me as an expectation from end users.

Also, I don’t think that when Microsoft says “power users” they mean developers or equivalent, more like people who would feel “I want more from my system than just consuming content”.

Having a single package to install for those users is a quite flexible approach.

[craftinator]

> If people want/need to do something such as bulk renaming, they can online search for it, as they do for everything else, which will tell them they can install a package from the windows store.

Or they'll find some sketchy exe file, and here comes the malware! Windows is really broken in terms of package distribution, and requiring people to go online and search for something so simple is hassle, dangerous, and decreases discoverability for software that really ought to be included in a vanilla install (unlike Cortana, which is a massively bloated feature that many people don't want, but can't get rid of, sort of like Bixby).

[dgellow]

Cortana has been moved to a separate package available from Windows Store as of the May update of this year (the mainstream release is in two days IIRC). There are a lot of benefits for Microsoft to keep a base install and let users add what they want from the Windows Store.

[Grumbledour]

In my experience, most normal users would just assume it is something computers can't do and either rename all files by hand or not bother and leave them be.

And even the few who would do a search would probably stop at the scary though of "installing" something.

As a technical person, these are regular observations from my parents or non-technical work colleagues.