[runawaybottle]

This kind of app architecture looks so disgusting, can’t be on board with this.

I posted this article earlier today, but it will probably get lost:

https://blog.usejournal.com/reducing-the-pain-of-developing-...

It does a good job of explaining why the developer friendliness of this architecture is an impediment.

Edit:

I just don’t know even know what to say about how common this actions/reducer stuff is. Like really? We went from:

  fetch(url).then().error()

To this switch statement nonsense?

I’m at a loss for words at how little effort we’re putting into reducing boilerplate, and making good usable apis.

[daneburkland]

What do you do inside of the then and error blocks? _That_ is what this post (and state machines) are concerned with. Passing messages to a single entity (reducer in this case) that decides how to handle them, rather than spreading that logic across components, event handlers etc.

In terms of boilerplate, libraries like Xstate do a great job on that front. The goal here is to provide a from-the-ground-up overview of using explicit state machines.

[runawaybottle]

A lot of my feedback is less about what the article is hoping to investigate, and more about the proliferation of these types of patterns in codebases.

We can still contain the logic on how to handle that request in a single function:

  fetch(url).then(updateState(whateverYouNeedToDo(response))

I don’t think explicit state machine orchestration helps app architecture when we have been succinctly achieving the same thing with way less needlessness.

So I guess a lot of my frustration is that this stuff is literally in someone’s bootstrapped todo app right now, or crud app. The normalization of articles like this in effect normalized code like this everywhere. I’d like to at least just yell back a little to reverse some of these trends that got adopted with little thought about trade offs.

In other words, don’t even think about reaching for the explicit state machine scaffolding if all you really want to do is use immutable data and a fetch request. Ironically, the thing that needs to be explicitly declared is this warning.

[daneburkland]

`whateverYouNeedToDo` needs to have knowledge of the application's state. Spreading application logic around event handlers is problematic. In sufficiently complex applications, we're better off simply 'passing messages' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_passing). Perhaps I'll start on a follow-up post which better outlines those benefits :)

[runawaybottle]

Can give me an example?

Let’s say I need to update state.tweets, what do I need to know here?

I know the fetch got handled, then I have my state and new data, what does message passing solve here? Or even better, if it solves something, how do you justify this level of scaffolding that it warrants that trade off?

Edit:

I’ll make one other suggestion. If you believe for sufficiently complex apps something like what you are suggesting makes sense, then provide that sufficiently complex example.

It’s very hard for people to assess this stuff on a simple request/response handler. By this I mean it actually gets used in the simplest possible use cases, where it has no business being used.

[daneburkland]

Whether the user has switched from "Home" -> "Latest Tweets", whether the app has encountered an error since the request was made, whether the user has interacted with a previously loaded tweet, whether the user has quickly scrolled and another request is pending.

Thanks for the feedback. The benefits of modeling application logic with state machines are increasingly apparent as complexity grows. But that complexity makes for a dense blog post :)

[runawaybottle]

Well, do write the dense blog post because it acts as something more substantial for surveyors who may not put more thought into it other than ‘I guess this and stuff like Redux is how to do web apps now’. Usage of these patterns is not an insignificant decision without trade offs, and by no means right for every app. I can similarly make a case that some of the features you outlined for tweets could be done in a sensible intuitive way that doesn’t introduce an explicit state machine.

I’ll leave a good dense article on developer friendliness of some of these apis that you may want to address as well, since a larger symptom of the architecture you suggest is boilerplate:

https://christianalfoni.com/articles/taking-immer-one-step-f...