[Czarcasm]

I have been on Reddit for 5+ years now, and agree that it seems to have gotten worse over this period.

Do you think that the removal of the downvote capability solves this problem? What solutions are available?

I think the main issue is that Reddit has become more mainstream. My theory is that when a new website like reddit is created, the early adopters are typically more open-minded people by their very nature. Later as the platform is recognized as successful, the mainstream population joins. These mainstream users, less likely on average to accept new ideas than the initial early-adopter user base, then begins to drag the discussion into group-think.

My most pronounced experience with this phenomenon was with r/wallstreetbets. In the early days, it was actually a very interesting and unique community with rapidly evolving conversations. With the mass influx of new users in 2018 and 2019, the comment sections slowly shifted into parroting of the subs common phrases and group think. Now in 2020, you can almost predict the comment sections before you open it up.

Perhaps due to its lack of promotion and UI, HN has been more resistant to this shift, but is not immune.

My personal solution to this problem is to keep jumping to new platforms if an old one becomes too bias. When my favorite subreddits start hitting r/all, I begin looking for new ones that follow the same topics.

[pgt]

Clay Shirky describes this phenomenon as Eternal September in “A Group is its own worst enemy”: http://web.archive.org/web/20050615082335/http://shirky.com/...

[magicsmoke]

When you think about it, it's like the phenomenon where cool places to travel get publicized in glossy magazines and turn into crowded tourist traps.

[jasonv]

I deleted my reddit account and read it read-only-accountless now. Having zero inclination to post there keeps my reading habit super lightweight. I don’t even bookmark subreddits. Just dip and dive out. I just can’t handle more than that amount of exposure to what it’s become.

[csiegert]

For even lighter reading, try https://popular.pics – a picture/video viewer for Reddit I’m working on. I find it excellent for browsing image-heavy subreddits.

[quantummkv]

> Do you think that the removal of the downvote capability solves this problem? What solutions are available?

It's a classic case of a variant of the WWW-Eternal-September virus that had been plaguing the interwebs since the dawn of forums. There is no solution other than quarantine and moving to unaffected places.

[marcus_holmes]

It's been plaguing non-interweb groups since always. The dynamic goes something like:

- A thing becomes possible. Some people enjoy the thing, get together and form a community doing the thing.

- the community quickly stratifies into "creators" - the people who actually do the thing and do it well, "community builders" - the people who don't actually do the thing very well, but are good at building the community around it, and "fans" - people who can't really do the thing, but enjoy the community and hang around in it.

- if the creator:fan ratio stays within reasonable limits, the community will continue to be enjoyable and fun

- if the community attracts more fans, though, the community is destroyed. Either the urge to monetise overwhelms and fans become customers, creators become rockstars and the community becomes an industry.

- Or it drowns in its own bile. Fans don't actually contribute to the community, they just soak up every else's contribution. If there are too many fans, they drain the energy and ability of the community to self-sustain. Community builders "burn out" and creators become reclusive, staying away from the community.

Anything that gets too popular gets either turned into an industry, or destroyed by its own popularity.

[teddyh]

Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution:

https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

[marcus_holmes]

I loved that, but never agreed with the "sociopath" bit

[goatlover]

You don't think there are people looking to exploit communities for their own gain?

[marcus_holmes]

What I think on the subject is longer than I have space for here. But briefly - I think healthy communities spot these characters early and isolate them. It's not until the communities become toxic that the sociopaths can operate freely. So the sociopaths are a symptom, not the cause.

[danielbarla]

Removal of downvote is not necessarily enough, it doesn't stop differing comments from being drowned out in an echo chamber.

I really think that the problem is somewhat embedded in two things: human nature, and practical limits of our attention. For the former, what I mean is that essentially discussions tend to get driven towards extreme or biased views, because people with moderated, centrist, or less extreme views are less likely to say anything. As the community grows, eventually there are enough people with extreme views that the limit of how many comments you are willing to read through is saturated with them. Eventually one view becomes predominant. And I guess, the last factor would be that people enjoy seeing their beliefs echoed back to them, as a form of validation - aannd we've hit peak echo chamber.

I honestly have no real solution to this, other than trying to stay within smaller subreddits, where the middling opinions are not yet drowned out. And preferably ones that are well moderated, and have expectations of quality posts (you mention HN, and the self-moderation of the community here is a good example, jokes and other shitposts are regularly voted into oblivion, although this trend has been slowly diminishing over the years). As for specific subreddits that are great examples, it is hard to point out, because they are so specific.

[benibela]

>Do you think that the removal of the downvote capability solves this problem? What solutions are available?

You used to get downvoted for disagreement. Nowadays, you get banned from the sub altogether.