[mayank]

> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time

I'm in this camp (haven't published since I graduated and joined industry), and I also strongly disagree with this statement. The value of the PhD is how it changes the way you think, how you break down big fuzzy problems, and how it helps you navigate the literature when you need help, and how it helps you know where to look and who to ask.

I've worked on much harder problems than my PhD, but none have felt as hard as the PhD, because of the PhD.

[jvanderbot]

The problem is the definition of "research". If you call it "publication", then yes, it seems like a waste.

If you call it "development of new widgets after principled approaches consistent with or beyond the state of the art", it starts to feel like a Ph.D can be training to do really great work in industry.

[glangdale]

Very much this. I have spent a considerable post-PhD period developing "new widgets" as you put it, and I constantly feel the benefit of (a) the early training of my PhD and (b) the benefit of commercial work done in the framework of "(a)". That seems a bit obscure, but think of it as this analogy:

Person A never does any serious training in a sport, and then goes on to spend 10 years playing "hit and giggle" tennis (say). They probably get a bit better.

Person B spends several years in their youth doing tennis lessons at a high level. They then never take another tennis lesson, ever, but they spend the same 10 years as person A playing recreational tennis, using the skills they have built in their youth as a framework.

I feel that a lot of the stuff I've done recently builds more on the work I did as a commercial researcher (2006-2017, particularly) than it does on my PhD work, but I also think that the 2006-2017 work greatly benefited from my PhD.

[mettamage]

I have one anecdata point, kind of. It's not PhD level but master versus the non-academic route.

TL;DR: my friend is more practical (e.g. better at bandaid solutions). I am more integrated with theory and practice (e.g. diagnosing issues from sillicon to high level). When things are simple, he is faster. When things are harder, I am the only one who can solve it.

===== THE WHOLE STORY ======

I simply did a bachelor + master in CS (security + web/mobile). My friend is a semi self-taught web developer and (soon to be) pentester.

Friend in Web:

When he became serious about web development, he went to a coding bootcamp. When I started teaching web, he had 1 year of company experience.

Me in Web:

I had some hobby experience with web, but because I had CS fundamentals and a good teaching style, I was hired to start teaching his course.

Result:

My friend was more practical than me. He came with more bandaid-style solutions which were sometimes warranted (time-constraints) and sometimes they weren't. For me, it helped me to bridge theory and practice.

Alrighty, round 2: pentesting.

Friend in Pentesting:

It took him a year (!) to get his bearings and find a curriculum he wanted to learn. In this year he learned a lot about pentesting which is how he could verify that he found "the magic bullet" of curriculums. By the way the "magic bullet" for entry level pentesters is: go to hackthebox.eu and if you want to get certified (i.e. recruiters will notice you), do OSCP. He did a lot of different stuff before he got to this conclusion (honorable mention: VHL - Virtual Hacking Labs).

Me in Pentesting:

My friend invited me to join him on hackthebox.eu because he knew I did courses in web + network security, binary & malware analysis and hardware security. I go in and slay the boxes together with him. The key difference: he is fast, I am slow but I am capable of hacking the most difficult levels (which they call insane boxes).

Result:

We teach each other a bit of what we know. He helped me get faster with easy boxes. I helped him to (almost) hack insane boxes. In doing so, I taught him x64 assembly and some C.

[dan-robertson]

Surely this is a question where many opinions will be biased.

If you did a phd and stayed in academia then you are likely to feel that having people do phds and leave academia is a waste of resources (maybe this is wrong and phd students are so cheap that they are net contributors).

If you did a phd and left academia then you are perhaps likely to feel that your phd bestowed benefits to you outside of academia and that those benefits ought to be afforded to people in later generations.

I suppose if one doesn’t have a phd then one might have either opinion, or some other opinion eg that phds are entirely a waste of public money.