[smt88]

Not sure why you need to put down entrepreneurs while praising this kid.

Hacking a company together is really hard. Like tech hacking, it requires intelligence, creativity, and persistence.

There's no reason we can't read about and respect both on this site.

[kick]

The concern is in the appropriation of the term 'hacker'.

He's not putting anything or anyone down, he's saying that this is hacking, and MBA posts of acronym soup aren't.

I think his implied conclusion is probably wrong-ish (both are arguably right for HN, even if I vastly prefer this), but he's right in that this is hacking.

[ilrwbwrkhv]

100% agree. Winamp was a hacker's application. iTunes is a company's application.

[rapind]

One could argue WeWork hacked unicorns.

[toofy]

One could argue anything they like, it doesn’t mean their argument (or sophistry in general) leads to a better acquiring of knowledge through discussion.

In my opinion, the gp’s discussion is one worth having.

[Barrin92]

hacking culture was not just about the skills it takes to participate, it was also about values. One of them, openness and sharing information. open protocols over closed walls.

entrepreneurship today in particular in tech often tries to capitalise on the latter rather than the former, at least most of the time. Adopting the aesthetics of hacker culture to further institutions that could not be more damaging to an open ecosystem is already more common than actual 'hacking'.

[gitgud]

They seem to be antithetical ideas somehow.

Business inherently relies on secrecy (proprietary stuff). Hackers try to make secret things open.

[wwright]

What makes you think that business inherently relies on secrecy?

[gitgud]

All business is based on some kind of upper hand right? Secrecy is usually the root of that upper hand.

Sometimes you can reveal your "secret sauce" but patents/copyright/regulation will protect it from being stolen. So the "secret sauce" is still what separates you from the other businesses...

It makes sense in my head, but maybe I'm rambling... I'll try and write a blog post to explain my thoughts a bit better.

Can you think of a business that is entirely transparent?

[wwright]

I think the framing is kind of off.

Being a successful business doesn’t mean that you must be secretive about your business operations. I don’t think it requires an “upper hand” either. Those may be key to out-competing other businesses in some way, but that is different than being successful. (Capital culture makes us think of a “successful business” as one that makes insane amounts of money, rather than one that achieves a goal.)

Of course, all businesses realistically will have some secrets, but those may often be separate from the business operations. For example, it would probably be very difficult to be public about all of your HR details, or expose all of your internal phone numbers/emails/physical addresses (humans just like basic privacy).

But many local businesses can probably operate just fine without being very secretive. There was a place in my hometown I loved that served shakes, cheese sticks, and cheeseburgers. I don’t think he did anything special that needed to be kept secret. People just like a nice diner with a decent burger.

[ddevault]

Startup culture is basically the opposite of hacker culture. As kick hints to, the term has been appropriated. This site has been dubiously hackish from the start.

[enos_feedler]

Hacking together a product takes intelligence, creativity and persistence. Hacking together a company takes empathy, honesty, respect, humility, etc. It's about the people and building a team. I don't associate this with "hacking" at all.

[smt88]

This is a distinction without a difference. When to start a new company, you hack together both a product and a company.