[01100011]

I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than accidents in cars.

I'd rather not have a car for my daily commute. Driving my large family vehicle for my job is wasteful and inefficient. I almost never need to carry anything large or heavy on my daily commute. I work less than 20 miles from home. I don't need a daily commuter vehicle with more than 2.5x this range.

I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof, would be perfect to augment my existing transportation options.

[AdrianB1]

I am on the third motorcycle in 15 years; I don't wear any special clothing when I commute and commuting with the motorcycle takes 1/3 of the time at rush hours versus car or public transportation. Most of the summer I just ride with a helmet and gloves, if it is colder I wear a jacket. For commuting, accidents in the city are less serious than on the highway or twisties.

Yes, for rainy days I have a pair of waterproof overpants in the top case and a pair of waterproof gloves. The jackets are all waterproof (Goretex or similar). I got soaked wet while commuting on the bicycle, never on the motorcycle.

[lazyjones]

> I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof,

Why don't you own a Twizy already?

[globular-toast]

> I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than accidents in cars.

It shouldn't be a mystery why motorcycle accidents are more common. A superbike like a Yamaha R1 is capable of 0-100mph in less than 6 seconds, all in first gear. Ownership of an R1 is within the reach of many under 25s and most enthusiastic under 30s. Contrast that with a supercar which, for most people, will be out of reach until much later in life, if ever, and even then is such a big investment that most just sit around in air-conditioned garages rather than hitting the B-roads of England every Sunday morning.

None of that means that commuting on a more sensible motorcycle is particularly dangerous in the grand scheme of things.

[m-ee]

I ride, and know a lot of people who do, and the amount of injuries from road debris or cars turning left without looking dwarf the crashes from just going too fast. This might be regional though, most places don’t have Bay Area traffic.

[http-teapot]

That’s how I got my first and last accident. Double parked car made a U-turn in a commercial street without signaling. My front tire got caught under his car, bringing me to a complete stop and flipping me over. I was only doing 15mph.

That ended it for me, bike was totaled, wife decided I stopped and I had no intention in getting involved in a more serious accident. I miss riding, I miss the sensation of freedom.

[globular-toast]

> wife decided I stopped

> I miss the sensation of freedom

I'm not surprised.

[nsl73]

In the United States most motorcycle accidents involving more than one vehicle the motorcycle is not at fault. It’s really common for a car driver to not use a blinker, or not see a motorcycle and cause an accident with a motorcyclist.

[lstodd]

Same thing everywhere else. Cars not signalling, suddenly opening doors into traffic, idiots jumping out of bushes etc etc.

The distant second place is road condition - surprise potholes, open manholes, spits of concrete, pools of lubricant and cooling fluid after previous crashes is also nice.

And only then comes something that can be remotely called reckless riding.

[kiliantics]

Amen. Cagers on their phones instead of watching the road.

[trothamel]

I don't know why you're downvoted - I might disagree with part of what you wrote, but it's a reasonable point.

I will suggest that motorcycles are inherently more dangerous. A car has four points of contact, so like a table, there's some inherent stability to it. A motorcycle's two points of contact means that stability has to be in some sense active, which seems problematic.

[sudosysgen]

Not really, no. Motorcycles are inherently stable due to a combination of gyroscopic stability, wheel geometry and rake geometry.

They are so stable in fact, that at high speeds one needs to use a technique called counter-steering in order to induce a gyroscopic and geometric reaction that sends the motorcycle into the required position. This technique is also used by some bicycle riders, to a smaller extent and also partly subconsciously.

Motorcycles are very stable. In comparison, the steering and suspension dynamics of four wheeled vehicles have to be very finely tuned in order to avoid feedback effects, instabilities, and this tuning has to be balanced with phenomenons such as oversteer and understeer. Overconstraining is also the cost for many issues, as is the consumer demand for bad form factors that lead to loss of control, rolls, and sometimes even death-wobbles.

Tricycles, such as this one, at least aren't overconstrained, but they are a lot less stable as they have neither the inherent reactive stability of bicycles nor the balanced resistance to torque while maintaining stability. This is further compounded by demand for non-optimal geometries, such as the one in the article, that lead to even less stability. This obviously doesn't apply to vehicles such as the Yamaha Nikken.

[leetcrew]

motorcycles are very hard to tip over under normal circumstances. it's only when you start sliding that the vehicle becomes unstable. if you do this during a turn, it's much more difficult to recover than in a car.

still, unless you're driving at the limit, the main risk is probably hitting or getting hit by other vehicles. most of the "inherently more dangerous" comes from having essentially zero protection in a crash compared to a modern car.

[AdrianB1]

Stereotyping motorcycles is common; I never had a sport bike and none of my friends had one, so a Yamaha R1, the most useless bike on a street, is a bad argument in a discussion but fairly common.

That 3 wheeled vehicle is fine for commuting or small shopping, you never consider going there on a R1, but on a mid-range city bike or adv bike you can do it pretty well.

[sudosysgen]

I would rather get into an accident on a motorcycle than in this death trap.