[claudeganon]

“Re-open the economy” talk has reached levels of collective delusion that I honestly find frightening. And it’s not a partisan issue either.

We have the example of successful responses in places like South Korea and Taiwan, none of whose standard the US seems intent, or maybe even capable, of meeting. Instead, people in the US cling to phony performances of leadership by their various authoritarians, whether it be Andrew Cuomo for Democrats or Trump for Republicans.

[mindslight]

Every substantive viewpoint I've seen on the subject comes back to cashflow. Our national propaganda is so strong, that rather than the middle class asking "why do I have to go to work every day just to pay rent to the bank?", they've internalized the system so thoroughly that they're actually protesting to get back on the treadmill.

[ra1n85]

>Our national propaganda is so strong, that rather than workers asking "why do I have to go to work every day just to pay rent to the bank?"

This is not fair to people that have spent their lifetimes building businesses and are watching them go bust, or people that derive satisfaction from their employment.

Worse, for those that would rather not go back to work and are suffering, your comment comes across as "shame on them for not asking for more". This crisis is hurting so many people, and its impact will be felt for a long time. We don't need comments like this.

[mindslight]

> This is not fair to people that have spent their lifetimes building businesses and are watching them go bust

What is actually unfair to them is their businesses going bust, but here we are. We can either acknowledge the underlying reasons for why this is happening, or keep ignoring the elephant in the room of the ever-growing debt spiral.

You're shooting the messenger with grandstanding empathy, and that style of comment helps nobody. Indeed, people should be asking for more, rather than letting themselves be disenfranchised by fatalistic propaganda. People should be demanding a competent public health response. People should be demanding timely unemployment benefits that don't hinge on the whims of states forcing businesses to close. People should be demanding loans and disaster payments for small businesses that aren't stacked to benefit large connected companies. People should be demanding the right for workers to walk out over negligent conditions. People should be demanding a commercial rent stoppage. And people should be demanding an end to trickle-up economics so we aren't in these same inflexible overleveraged positions for the next crisis.

[smileysteve]

> This is not fair to people that have spent their lifetimes building businesses and are watching them go bust

This will primarily be true of businesses with strong brick and mortar services (but especially those renting brick and mortar); the result will be that, in the future,

1. Owners will divest earnings as much possible rather than investing in growth in order to jump into bankruptcy protection more rapidly next time

2. Accountants will recommend accounting for 4 weeks of paid leave classified as sick leave that will be used up during a quarantine.

[SpicyLemonZest]

Frankly, if every substantive viewpoint you've seen comes back to cashflow, that means you're dismissing viewpoints you don't understand as unsubstantive. A lot of people derive most of their meaning in life from hanging out with friends and working to provide for their family; they find it miserable to sit on their butts all day watching Netflix, even if the government keeps them well fed.

[mindslight]

The context is "re-open the economy", and so I was referring to the economic arguments. One doesn't have to just sit around watching movies. Doing so is a choice. For example, catch up on those home improvement projects you've been putting off - that is providing for your family. People that enjoy being productive will generally find a way to be productive outside the economic structure. This is still Hacker News, right?