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by wlll 2241 days ago
> It may not be terribly difficult to understand, but it is indeed very complex to enact at scale, especially with large systems that were designed under different constraints.

As a developer, I agree. As an end user, I am OK with this.

If organisations have to think hard about what data they collect, because it means they have to think hard about how to safely store and destroy it, then that's a good thing.

It has been easy to collect, store and disseminate user data without thought for a long time, and website operators have proved they can't (in general) act responsibly.

> This is where we disagree a little. Calling it handwringing is hand-wavey and dismissive

My honest opinion about most of the consent popups I see is that they are at best trying to weasel out of having to comply with the regulations, or at worst applying dark patterns to trick the user into "consenting".

I am sure there are some honest people with consent popups out there, but I'm not generally generous enough to attribute anything other than malice or incompetence.

> this stuff isn't easy to get right, and it's arguably a large cost for the wrong solution.

For sure, but it works both ways. There is a (potential) financial penalty for not taking care of user data, but at the same time, there's a pretty large cost to a user if their data is spaffed all over databases on the Internet when they didn't want that.

Also, I'm pretty sure if you are actually trying to be GDPR compliant then your first interaction with the information commissioners office will be them trying to help you comply, and you do always have the option of just deleting the data if you can't treat it safely.

> Cookies come in HTTP response headers. Don't want the cookie to do anything? Don't read it! Tell your browser to ignore it. Don't like the JS that's being run? Disable JS.

I feel like I read somewhere that telling the user to adjust their cookie settings in the browser was speficically discussed, and not allowed, but I could be wrong.

> Waging a war against cookies is just a cop-out for fighting the actual problem. What's next? Opt-in banners for JS in webpages? For using HTTP? TCP?

It would be a mistake to think that Cookies are the focus of the GDPR. See https://gdpr.eu/cookies/:

"However, throughout its’ 88 pages, it only mentions cookies directly once, in Recital 30."

The GDPR is about user privacy, cookies are one of the primary tools for violating it, and the most prominent artefact seen on the web, so it's the focus of a lot of discussion, but the main thrust of the regulations aren't around cookies themselves.

It is significantly unlikely that there will be opt in banners for JS, HTTP, TCP, phone calls, cameras at the beach, or just looking at people with your eyes any time soon.

2 comments

> I feel like I read somewhere that telling the user to adjust their cookie settings in the browser was speficically discussed, and not allowed, but I could be wrong.

Consent must be informed and specific, so simply asking users to set their browser to accept or reject all cookies (regardless of purpose) is not compliant.

On the other hand, if browsers get their act together and standardize a consent API with the necessary features, then browser-based consent management would surely be compliant. GDPR and ePrivacy don't address this explicitly, though GDPR Recital 32 considers consent by “choosing technical settings for information society services”.

Centralising consent in browsers is a key consideration in the proposal for an updated ePrivacy Regulation, but the EU is not going to mandate specific technologies. Everyone is well aware of the mess that is the Do-Not-Track header.

These are good points. It definitely cuts both ways.

I'm not against GDPR, and I'm glad these issues are getting attention. I just want to make sure we recognize there is a lot of nuance here, and there are real costs and second- and third-order consequences to consider.